folks in my town

bigdoglover · 03-30-2005, 04:40 PM

Ok, I work at the elementary school in town. There are these people whose child (14) I supervise. Anyway, they have a female American Bulldog, and a Rednose Coonhound (male). Neither are fixed, and the female got pregnant due to being in the same shabby pen as the male. (go figure) But they think she also got pregnant by a male English Mastiff. So the 9 year old AB has her pups. 9 total. Keep in mind the pen she is in is dirt, and only about 10x10, with the male coonhound. She whelped in a doghouse that is about 2x3. And they were shocked when they went out one morning and 6 of them were dead. Squished. So I went by there to see the last 3 only to find out that she squished another one. The 2 that are left are a male and female. They just opened their eyes yesterday, and the male is huge. Obviously getting all of the food. But the little girl seems to have a neck problem. She looks like she is holding the phone to her shoulder. All kinked around. They asked me what the problem was, and I told them that maybe she was bent like that while still in mom. They said, "well, we massage her and she seems to straighten out". Good lord. My question is, how is she eating? She can't be getting much, because she is significantly smaller than the male. They decided after all of the others died, that they should build a bigger dog house for her. Well DUH.

Anyway, they want to give me the female when she is ready. But I'm not sure. I really don't think she'll live, plus when I think of all of the potential problems with the whole neck issue.

Any thoughts? I know this was a long post, and I apologize. You all know how I feel about breeding and raising pups in the "perfect" conditions. It's the female's 3rd litter. I don't think they are going to breed her again, but this was an accident, so who knows. Their vet told them that she wouldn't survive the anesthesia to get spayed, nor survive another litter. But they won't keep her separate. There is a long story with this family that none of you really want to take the time to read about. The sad thing is, this kid's Aunt was a big time AB breeder. But she is messy and worries me. She doesn't have the best environment for her dogs. Keeps them chained up outside, etc.
So what do you all think? Should I tell them I don't want the pup?
I've got about 4-5 weeks to decide.

Crossfire Bulldogs · 03-30-2005, 05:08 PM

I can't even begin to tell you how angry people like this make me

If it were me, even if I didn't want the pup I'd try to talk them into giving her to me now before she did die, at least she might have a chance if put into the hands of someone who was more caring and concerned for her. You can always rehome her when she's old enough.

My guess with her neck would be that she's torn muscle due to mom "squishing" the litter and she's just been lucky enough to pull herself out so far. Just a guess.

TinyAlbinoDancer · 03-30-2005, 05:24 PM

Could you get them to agree to pay for a vet visit to determine the cause of the neck before deciding whether or not to take her? It's a heart-wrenching decision...

Can I ask why the female won't survive anesthesia for spaying? Is there any non-surgical way to render her sterile they could look into? What a horrible situation...

***Cassiepeia*** · 03-30-2005, 06:56 PM

Oh gods!

I'd definately take the pup and I agree with Sonja. She'd probably have a better chance of survival if you took her now.
If they can't spay the female can they (or rather...WILL they) neuter the male?
All I can say is, poor dogs.

Cass.

calgal · 03-30-2005, 07:05 PM

What a royal mess!!! I'm sorry your caught in the middle. Take the puppy, and ask if you can have both male and female. You can take care of them till they are old enough for you to find great homes for them. I wouldn't want them to stay at that house.

2pups622 · 03-30-2005, 08:14 PM

i think you should take her ~whats if ~they decide to breed her ~these people should not have animals american bulldogs are a great breed you should take her before things get worse at least shell have a chance with you this is very sad answer this for i have never understood why does someone get an animal to leave it outside ???theres no point the dog can have a better home living inside and sleeping in a bed with its owner not on dirt

bigdoglover · 03-31-2005, 06:38 AM

Thanx for all of the responses. The male pup is already spoken for, and there is no chance the will neuter the other 2 males the got to her. The vet told them that due to the females age (9yrs) and her condition (poor...she's been hit by a car twice) that she probably wouldn't pull through. As for them keeping her outside....any of you who live in the mid-west know how the weather has been the past couple of months. COLD. and they don't even have a heat lamp for her. If I took the pup, I don't doubt my female GS would take care of her, she just couldn't nurse. The pup would have to go at least 4 hours a day without formula. And the idea of a torn muscle in her neck is a definite possibility. I saw the litter the day it was born, and they all looked fine. (considering the conditions) I don't know, my brain and my heart are in battle with each other. And I agree, if I don't take her, either they will keep her and breed, or give her to someone who will do the same. GGGRRRRR....I get headaches thinking about it. The other sad thing is, when the kid found out about Conan passing, he said "I'll save a pup for you"....he meant it with all sincerity, but jeez. I know a lot of you think it's a no-brainer, but I can't handle losing another dog. I keep thinking "what if she doesn't make it, even in my care?" "what if I have to put her down in 2 months?" I swear, I just don't know.

flyndog · 03-31-2005, 07:30 AM

GRRR. Sometimes it's good to just call the local authorities and have them taken away from the owner.

Saintgirl · 03-31-2005, 07:34 AM

My advice would be to contact your local vet and see if they know of any good foster homes for an unweaned pup. It sounds like the little girl really needs a fighting chance and these foster homes are usually quite experienced with pups in all sorts of condidtions. Then you could decide whether or not you did want to keep this poor little girl when she was properly weaned, or with the help of a foster home find her a good family to take proper care of her. It must be heart breaking for you, I wish you the best of luck in your decision!

Crossfire Bulldogs · 03-31-2005, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdoglover

Thanx for all of the responses. The male pup is already spoken for, and there is no chance the will neuter the other 2 males the got to her. The vet told them that due to the females age (9yrs) and her condition (poor...she's been hit by a car twice) that she probably wouldn't pull through. As for them keeping her outside....any of you who live in the mid-west know how the weather has been the past couple of months. COLD. and they don't even have a heat lamp for her. If I took the pup, I don't doubt my female GS would take care of her, she just couldn't nurse. The pup would have to go at least 4 hours a day without formula. And the idea of a torn muscle in her neck is a definite possibility. I saw the litter the day it was born, and they all looked fine. (considering the conditions) I don't know, my brain and my heart are in battle with each other. And I agree, if I don't take her, either they will keep her and breed, or give her to someone who will do the same. GGGRRRRR....I get headaches thinking about it. The other sad thing is, when the kid found out about Conan passing, he said "I'll save a pup for you"....he meant it with all sincerity, but jeez. I know a lot of you think it's a no-brainer, but I can't handle losing another dog. I keep thinking "what if she doesn't make it, even in my care?" "what if I have to put her down in 2 months?" I swear, I just don't know.

Your right, that is a very hard decision and I can understand you being hesitant. You've had a rough road losing one of your own and I know exactly the thoughts you have going through your mind now with the idea of taking in the little one. Very same thoughts I've been having since my two pups were born. ( first litter since losing one of my girls )

Although I feel terrible for this poor little pup you have to base your decision on what you can handle with all the thoughts swirling around as well as knowing for sure if you can handle it if she would die in your care. I don't think anyone here would blame you for not taking her on; she'd be tons of work and emotionally it may not be an option which is VERY understandable.

The kid sounds like a real doll saving a pup for you, he has a big heart and hopefully later in life that heart will guide him in a way that will make him understand that the way his family is going about things with their dogs is wrong. I agree with Saint, maybe you could find a foster that would be willing to take on the pup but then how do you explain this to the owners? I'm sure they would be asking ( at least the little boy ) how the pup was doing and would want to see the pup at least once.

This is a hard one for sure. Since the two remaining pups are still living and currently not ill ( I don't expect that to last long ) I doubt the authorities will step in if they have at least shelter, food and water. Unfortunatly most cities do not have an ordinance on how much space a dog or their pups are required to have as long as the top three things are being given.

gaddylovesdogs · 03-31-2005, 09:51 AM

Oh, I feel like crying. Those poor puppies!! Those poor dogs....

Quote:

As for them keeping her outside....any of you who live in the mid-west know how the weather has been the past couple of months. COLD

Ugh. I'm in IL too and we haven't been exactly been having good enough weather for shorthaired dogs and puppies to be living outdoors.

bigdoglover · 03-31-2005, 04:21 PM

I asked the kid today how the pup was doing when she ate...he said, "well, she gets into a funny position and then latches on" I don't know. Crossfire hit it on the head....my emotions are swirling. See, I live in a town of 1,300. 500 of those people live in town, the rest live on large farms surrounding it. So foster homes are out, and the kid knows where I live (like everyone else here) so yes, he would want to see her. So I'm going to hang tight and see what happens this weekend. I just don't know!!!!

bigdoglover · 03-31-2005, 04:26 PM

PS...this is one of those towns where everyone is related in some form or fashion. This kid's dad was very abusive to mom, and has moved out. (about 3 years ago). I think when I breed my female, I am going to have him over to help, so he can see how it should be done. The whole whelping process, and taking care of the pups. Plus how important it is to have the proper things to do that. Like, oh, I don't know...A WHELPING BED WITH THE PROPER TEMPERATURE CONTROL!!!! Sorry, had to vent.
That would be for starters....he wants to learn about this stuff, so if nothing else I can at least educate him for the future. That much I CAN do. I'll keep you all posted as time goes on.

Crossfire Bulldogs · 03-31-2005, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdoglover

PS...this is one of those towns where everyone is related in some form or fashion. This kid's dad was very abusive to mom, and has moved out. (about 3 years ago). I think when I breed my female, I am going to have him over to help, so he can see how it should be done. The whole whelping process, and taking care of the pups. Plus how important it is to have the proper things to do that. Like, oh, I don't know...A WHELPING BED WITH THE PROPER TEMPERATURE CONTROL!!!! Sorry, had to vent.
That would be for starters....he wants to learn about this stuff, so if nothing else I can at least educate him for the future. That much I CAN do. I'll keep you all posted as time goes on.

Good for you! I think thats an excellent idea and a great way for the boy to see that there are better ways to do things!

Kudos to you!

bigdoglover · 04-01-2005, 05:21 AM

Thanx crossfire.....I'm going to his house after school (I sound like a kid myself...lol) and check on the pups. I'll keep ya posted!!

03-30-2005, 04:40 PM	#1 (permalink)
bigdoglover Giant Schnauzers Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West-Central Illinois Posts: 3,624 Rep Power: 175	folks in my town Ok, I work at the elementary school in town. There are these people whose child (14) I supervise. Anyway, they have a female American Bulldog, and a Rednose Coonhound (male). Neither are fixed, and the female got pregnant due to being in the same shabby pen as the male. (go figure) But they think she also got pregnant by a male English Mastiff. So the 9 year old AB has her pups. 9 total. Keep in mind the pen she is in is dirt, and only about 10x10, with the male coonhound. She whelped in a doghouse that is about 2x3. And they were shocked when they went out one morning and 6 of them were dead. Squished. So I went by there to see the last 3 only to find out that she squished another one. The 2 that are left are a male and female. They just opened their eyes yesterday, and the male is huge. Obviously getting all of the food. But the little girl seems to have a neck problem. She looks like she is holding the phone to her shoulder. All kinked around. They asked me what the problem was, and I told them that maybe she was bent like that while still in mom. They said, "well, we massage her and she seems to straighten out". Good lord. My question is, how is she eating? She can't be getting much, because she is significantly smaller than the male. They decided after all of the others died, that they should build a bigger dog house for her. Well DUH. Anyway, they want to give me the female when she is ready. But I'm not sure. I really don't think she'll live, plus when I think of all of the potential problems with the whole neck issue. Any thoughts? I know this was a long post, and I apologize. You all know how I feel about breeding and raising pups in the "perfect" conditions. It's the female's 3rd litter. I don't think they are going to breed her again, but this was an accident, so who knows. Their vet told them that she wouldn't survive the anesthesia to get spayed, nor survive another litter. But they won't keep her separate. There is a long story with this family that none of you really want to take the time to read about. The sad thing is, this kid's Aunt was a big time AB breeder. But she is messy and worries me. She doesn't have the best environment for her dogs. Keeps them chained up outside, etc. So what do you all think? Should I tell them I don't want the pup? I've got about 4-5 weeks to decide.

03-30-2005, 05:08 PM	#2 (permalink)
Crossfire Bulldogs Sourmug Mom Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Snuggled Between The Snorts & Snores. Posts: 7,844 Blog Entries: 3 Rep Power: 282	I can't even begin to tell you how angry people like this make me If it were me, even if I didn't want the pup I'd try to talk them into giving her to me now before she did die, at least she might have a chance if put into the hands of someone who was more caring and concerned for her. You can always rehome her when she's old enough. My guess with her neck would be that she's torn muscle due to mom "squishing" the litter and she's just been lucky enough to pull herself out so far. Just a guess.
	__________________ Get more out of Global Paw. Check out these great features. Global Paw Book Club -- Art Classes -- Woof Review I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~ Gerry Spence As a member of Global paw staff my opinions are not necessarily those of the website or the owner. Last edited by Crossfire Bulldogs : 03-30-2005 at 06:58 PM.

03-30-2005, 05:24 PM	#3 (permalink)
TinyAlbinoDancer Always room for one more Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: CA Posts: 2,538 Rep Power: 163	Could you get them to agree to pay for a vet visit to determine the cause of the neck before deciding whether or not to take her? It's a heart-wrenching decision... Can I ask why the female won't survive anesthesia for spaying? Is there any non-surgical way to render her sterile they could look into? What a horrible situation...
	__________________ ~Karen Missie~Trixie~Little Guy~Ollie

03-30-2005, 06:56 PM	#4 (permalink)
*Cassiepeia* Chihuahua Mum Super Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 8,271 Blog Entries: 9 Rep Power: 282	Oh gods! I'd definately take the pup and I agree with Sonja. She'd probably have a better chance of survival if you took her now. If they can't spay the female can they (or rather...WILL they) neuter the male? All I can say is, poor dogs. Cass.
	__________________ Say NO! to animals in pet shops. Rescue a friend instead: Petfinder Get more out of Global Paw. Check out these great features. Book Club ~ Blogs ~ Art Classes ~ Woof Review As a member of Global paw staff my opinions are not necessarily those of the website or the owner.

03-30-2005, 08:14 PM	#6 (permalink)
2pups622 Little Zoo Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ny Posts: 107 Rep Power: 0	i think you should take her ~whats if ~they decide to breed her ~these people should not have animals american bulldogs are a great breed you should take her before things get worse at least shell have a chance with you this is very sad answer this for i have never understood why does someone get an animal to leave it outside ???theres no point the dog can have a better home living inside and sleeping in a bed with its owner not on dirt
	__________________ Brownie(yorkie)-Kayko(silky terrier)-Austin (Lh Chi.)

03-30-2005, 07:05 PM	#5 (permalink)
calgal My Yorkster kids! Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: central ca. coast Posts: 6,692 Rep Power: 225	What a royal mess!!! I'm sorry your caught in the middle. Take the puppy, and ask if you can have both male and female. You can take care of them till they are old enough for you to find great homes for them. I wouldn't want them to stay at that house.

03-31-2005, 06:38 AM	#7 (permalink)
bigdoglover Giant Schnauzers Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West-Central Illinois Posts: 3,624 Rep Power: 175	Thanx for all of the responses. The male pup is already spoken for, and there is no chance the will neuter the other 2 males the got to her. The vet told them that due to the females age (9yrs) and her condition (poor...she's been hit by a car twice) that she probably wouldn't pull through. As for them keeping her outside....any of you who live in the mid-west know how the weather has been the past couple of months. COLD. and they don't even have a heat lamp for her. If I took the pup, I don't doubt my female GS would take care of her, she just couldn't nurse. The pup would have to go at least 4 hours a day without formula. And the idea of a torn muscle in her neck is a definite possibility. I saw the litter the day it was born, and they all looked fine. (considering the conditions) I don't know, my brain and my heart are in battle with each other. And I agree, if I don't take her, either they will keep her and breed, or give her to someone who will do the same. GGGRRRRR....I get headaches thinking about it. The other sad thing is, when the kid found out about Conan passing, he said "I'll save a pup for you"....he meant it with all sincerity, but jeez. I know a lot of you think it's a no-brainer, but I can't handle losing another dog. I keep thinking "what if she doesn't make it, even in my care?" "what if I have to put her down in 2 months?" I swear, I just don't know.

03-31-2005, 07:30 AM	#8 (permalink)
flyndog Unleash The Possibilities Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Marfa, TX Posts: 3,969 Rep Power: 181	GRRR. Sometimes it's good to just call the local authorities and have them taken away from the owner.
	__________________ mARFa Dog Training and Behavior

03-31-2005, 07:34 AM	#9 (permalink)
Saintgirl Hutch and Abbey's Mom Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Nova Scotia Canada Posts: 21 Rep Power: 67	My advice would be to contact your local vet and see if they know of any good foster homes for an unweaned pup. It sounds like the little girl really needs a fighting chance and these foster homes are usually quite experienced with pups in all sorts of condidtions. Then you could decide whether or not you did want to keep this poor little girl when she was properly weaned, or with the help of a foster home find her a good family to take proper care of her. It must be heart breaking for you, I wish you the best of luck in your decision!

03-31-2005, 04:21 PM	#12 (permalink)
bigdoglover Giant Schnauzers Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West-Central Illinois Posts: 3,624 Rep Power: 175	I asked the kid today how the pup was doing when she ate...he said, "well, she gets into a funny position and then latches on" I don't know. Crossfire hit it on the head....my emotions are swirling. See, I live in a town of 1,300. 500 of those people live in town, the rest live on large farms surrounding it. So foster homes are out, and the kid knows where I live (like everyone else here) so yes, he would want to see her. So I'm going to hang tight and see what happens this weekend. I just don't know!!!!

03-31-2005, 04:26 PM	#13 (permalink)
bigdoglover Giant Schnauzers Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West-Central Illinois Posts: 3,624 Rep Power: 175	PS...this is one of those towns where everyone is related in some form or fashion. This kid's dad was very abusive to mom, and has moved out. (about 3 years ago). I think when I breed my female, I am going to have him over to help, so he can see how it should be done. The whole whelping process, and taking care of the pups. Plus how important it is to have the proper things to do that. Like, oh, I don't know...A WHELPING BED WITH THE PROPER TEMPERATURE CONTROL!!!! Sorry, had to vent. That would be for starters....he wants to learn about this stuff, so if nothing else I can at least educate him for the future. That much I CAN do. I'll keep you all posted as time goes on.

04-01-2005, 05:21 AM	#15 (permalink)
bigdoglover Giant Schnauzers Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West-Central Illinois Posts: 3,624 Rep Power: 175	Thanx crossfire.....I'm going to his house after school (I sound like a kid myself...lol) and check on the pups. I'll keep ya posted!!