Designer Breeds In B'ham

[PatM]

On a whim, my girlfriend bought a brussels griffon from a puppy mill here. For $800! Everything was clean and neat but the dogs were all unsocialized and unloved "for profit only" animals. Raised like chickens or rabbits I guess. Could NOT believe she did that--saying she felt she saved the little pup. Which BTW is extreamly insecure and clingy and so far not housebroken. Has no problem pooing in her kennel. That's what keeps these places going! PatM

[Trish1964]

Ok, what do Papipoms look like? I have both a Papillion and a pom, Love them both, and I just bought a new little Pappy, last weekend.

[Rip's Girl]

Trish.. The ones I've seen just look like.. Papillon/Pom mixes. Most of them seem to have more Pom characteristics than Pap characteristics, but that's just been my observation.

Congrats on the new Pap puppy!

[Steve #1]

This is ridiculous!

Get off your high horses. At one time all purebreds were mixes and crossed with another for specific reasons weather to perform a certain job, or someone just liked the way they looked. At what point did this become bad? I'll assume that it was some time after your breed was established. This has been going on for centuries, and unless you own a mutt, YOU are just as responsible..... but, seriously, what difference does it make.

Puppy mills are bad irregardless of if they are raising "purebreds" or "mixes".

[Sayuri]

This is ridiculous!

Get off your high horses. At one time all purebreds were mixes and crossed with another for specific reasons weather to perform a certain job, or someone just liked the way they looked. At what point did this become bad? I'll assume that it was some time after your breed was established. This has been going on for centuries, and unless you own a mutt, YOU are just as responsible..... but, seriously, what difference does it make.

Puppy mills are bad irregardless of if they are raising "purebreds" or "mixes".

No one here is arguing that a purebred puppymill is any better than one pumping out mixes. If it's a puppymill, it's bad - end of story.

If someone is breeding purebreds unethically and poorly, I'm just as angry about it - you should *see* my wrath when I happen upon someone breeding Shibas poorly.

The "at one time all dogs were crosses and mixes and our purebreds developed from them" argument is stale and doesn't really apply. I can't remember how many times various members of this forum, myself included, have refuted this argument. What is the difference? At one time our breeds were being *legitimately* developed into breeds by people that were taking health and temperament into consideration. They had a well-thought out plan, had people working together that shared their passion, and had a reason for doing what they were doing that did NOT consist of capitalizing off of a fad. They didn't continue breeding first generation crosses and yet call the animals a breed when it suited them. They didn't sell their animals based off of false claims. They didn't give them cutsified names to increase their appeal. Reputable breeders today are health testing, are only selling to people that really are qualified to own the breed (notice they're not advertising in the local newspaper or telling us which credit cards they accept on their websites). The animals are put through some form of objective evaluation - you do not produce quality in a vaccuum. For the same reason that you were graded by teachers in school, you participate in shows or Schutzhund, herding trials, or what have you.

So at what point did this intentional crossbreeding become bad? At the point that it no longer became about producing a superior, healthy working animal but about producing a product that would sell. At the point that it became about exploiting animals. Does it seem like we're picking on mixed breeders? Probably because the majority of these programs popped up when it became apparent they were cash cows. But make no mistake, I have just as much problem with breeders of purebreds that are trying to make money rather than improvements in their breed.

A bad breeder is a bad breeder. Period.

If you want far more comprehensive and eloquent explanations regarding this issue and ire against designer dog breeders, I suggest you check out the multiple "oodle" threads - there's one current and one pages long that you might have to search for - on the forum. I just don't have the energy to repeat myself for the umpteenth time this week alone.

[Crossfire Bulldogs]

Wow has this thread ever been dug out of the mothballs.

This is ridiculous!

Get off your high horses. At one time all purebreds were mixes and crossed with another for specific reasons weather to perform a certain job, or someone just liked the way they looked. At what point did this become bad? I'll assume that it was some time after your breed was established. This has been going on for centuries, and unless you own a mutt, YOU are just as responsible..... but, seriously, what difference does it make.

Puppy mills are bad irregardless of if they are raising "purebreds" or "mixes".

Who said anything about puppy mills being a good thing regardless of whether they were breeding mixed breeds or pure breds? At what point did mixing breeds become a bad thing? Hmm, well how about when we started having well over a million plus homeless mixed breeds in shelters or how we have over 800 breeds of dogs currently available in this world....why on earth would we need more?

Unless I own a mutt I'm just as responsible? Responsible for what, I'm not sure I understand your finger pointing here. * taking her horse and walking away now.*

[Raised By Wolves]

When I think of a "fad" I also think of the type of person who just HAS to have what ever is popular at the time. Seems like such an empty pursuit to me.

Instead of going into the back of the storage closet when the novelty wears off and the fad is over, (with all of the hoola-hoops and big hair wigs), the dogs will go to a shelter.

[Steve #1]

Originally Posted by Crossfire Bulldogs

Wow has this thread ever been dug out of the mothballs.


Unless I own a mutt I'm just as responsible? Responsible for what, I'm not sure I understand your finger pointing here. * taking her horse and walking away now.*

Sorry missed that this was an old thread. Yes I know there are other similar threads on this board.... I had time to respond when I saw this one the other ones got me twisted too, i just didn't say anything.

Let me just try to clarify this one part. By providing a market for a dog with specific traits you (we) contribute to breading. Do we have the power to prevent the breading? Yes, in most cases. You (we) could have gone to the pound and taken our pick, but no we supported breading so we could have dogs with traits that we want when we could have saved one from the pound.

It's the old "if your not part of the solution (saving animals from the pound) you're part of the problem"

It was not said to point fingers, it was said to inspire thought.

I brought up "Puppy mills are bad irregardless of if they are raising "purebreds" or "mixes"." to remove many of the points Sayuri brought up from the argument. I could have said "irresponsible breading" but that would have been just as easily misconstrued.

With that, I'll let it lie.

[Crossfire Bulldogs]

It's the old "if your not part of the solution (saving animals from the pound) you're part of the problem"

I see where you going now, thanks for the clarification. I think you'll find that the majority of pure bred breeders do in fact rescue as well as donate their time and money to just that very cause ( saving animals from the pound ) which goes back to that old saying " If your going to breed you had better be giving something back to your breed as well as dogs in general."

As for breeding for specific traits and "providing a market", if it weren't for the reputable / ethical breeders how many of these breeds do you think would still be around today? Granted, there are breeders out there that are breeding for nothing more than the almighty dollar and I agree they should be stopped but I don't think stopping all pure breeds from being bred is the answer. Many of the great breeds we have today including your DDB would be extinct.

I think that if responsible breeders were given a choice of breeding for just the amount of dogs they need to continue their bloodlines ( impossible I know ) and having a litter where some may have to be placed they'd opt for just the number they needed. I know I would.