Uhm, some thoughts????

[D.Schäferhund]

Hello
I wasn' t sure if I should even post this. but I am stuck. stuck with my thoughts and now really unable to make a decision. I am aware that you probably can't say to much and or decide for me. But Maybe your thoughts help me out a little.

It was planed all along that I keep a female (thats gonna be spayed) from our litter.
I thought I had the pic done,the vollhardtest was ok, too.

I had piced a calmer but selassured female, scored mostly 2 (and 3).
Well for some who know the test it is still working but not too extrem, it is still over petquality. I don't mind that. i like dogs with character, like Mom is.
The other female scored more 3s, but never the less she is amazingly intelligent, just not that feisty. So i thought that would be a good one for a family. They are all 10 1/2 weeks old.
I take my time to give them away.
Now in the last 1-2 weeks i discoveres that my first pic is quite a lot like Mom. I admire that she is a hard, highdrive dog.
Well Some of you know I got mom with 10 month and she had some issues, e.g. beeing dog-aggressive.
Now my concern is wouldn't it be smarter to keep the more 3 scored female?
I know nowbody can answere these questions but these got me stuck:
I know i kan handle that kind of dog, and I know it might be more workintensive. but how deep is that dog agressiveness in the genes, well the high (sex-)drive. Can i get "rid " of it with a lot of socialisation? I know other bitches out of a very close line, and they are all to some extend simmilar. with having their own oppinion about other dogs....
Or do i keep the other female, the little always happy -in that litter anyways- not that dominant one. Her intelligenz was stunning fom beginning on, she was squeezing herself between moms forelegs and pushed herself through her armpit to go suck, that way nowbody could push her away. The little obedience like sit and down she pics up fast....
I try to make a rational decition, i like them both and i couldn't say i already prefere one, they have both they character that would be suited well.
My concern is. am I willing to go through all that trouble with the 2 scored one, Am I willing to put up with another dog that isn't a dog that i just can't put together with other dogs (if the socialisation does not have the wished effect) Am i willing to deal with that stress again.
Do I really want a easyer dog? Wouln't i miss the chanlange? Is it really a good idea to keep two similar bitches in the house, or would it be smarter to get a more "submissive" one, to prevent fights???

I don't know. so many questions and I am not able to answere it.
I am really stuck, the problem is i have to make my decition fast. there are people interested in them and I havn't made up my mind....
Not very smart but oh well forgive me. I thought I had made my decition....

[Crossfire Bulldogs]

Puppies change so much over time that someone's pick can change a million times before something just clicks. No one can tell you which would be best but a good place to start would be to take a good long look at mom, think about the challenges as well as the good things you've gone through with her, are these things you want to go through again or do you dread the thought?

Obviously no one can say for sure whether either pup with be dog aggressive, so many thing come into play from genetics on through socialization but, you should be able to tell at least somewhat which pup will be the challenge and which will come along a bit easier in training. Its all about what you want as well as which would work best with mom, after all she lives there too and finding a personality that matches well with her should be considered as well. jmo

[mrsgrubby]

Crossfire is right, puppies can change from day to day anyway. I was just reading "culture clash" last night and it was talking about how so much of puppies attitudes are created within the first four months of their lives. If you like your first pick better, keep that one. Just socialize her like crazy.

My dog intructor says "dip them in life". Take her with you to the pet store, the gas station, the hardware store, the park. Put her in puppy kindergarten class even though you already know how to train her, the socialization will be good.

You are great with dogs, and your posts on this forum are always really good. Go with your first choice and then put all your energy and knowlege into it, I am sure things will be fine.

[Gerald]

Maybe be upfront with whoever is going to purchase the dog who is more dog aggressive to the would be owner. Honesty is the best policy. Maybe you will find someone who wants that extra challenge?

[flyndog]

If I understand you correctly, you are using the Vollards' personality test for drives. It's been my experience that the test does predict pretty well. I give the test in puppy classes. Of course life experiences have an effect and so does maturity, but the dogs either balance out or remain high in the initial area. The puppies in class are between 3 and 6 months old (give or take a couple of weeks). I haven't had experience using the test on younger puppies.

The big question: Do you really want an easier dog? If you already have a challenging dog, you might be ready for less of a challenge! You can always create your own challenges! Has your lifestyle or health changed since your move that could affect your decision?

[D.Schäferhund]

Oh thanks for your all replys
thanks for asking more questions.... thanks for the snaps (i just grew a little).

Well, the first hurdle is obviously Kessy, she has to put up with the little monster, too. Do I think that will be a problem, well that I do not know. she is eventhough she is dogagressive, with her dogs she knows very different. she loves rough playing ones, but accepts if someone does not want to play, and just leaves it be. her best frind in fact after her big playpartner "Harry" was a female, they couldn't be with each other and couldn't be without. but Kessy put Finja often in place, well on the other hand she asked for it quite frequently.... Kessy was finjas idol, her owner wasn't always so pleased with it... she copied some behaviour she shouldn't have....
Seeing it from that perspective it might be more peace in the house if I keep a more subissive one. but Kessy also knows how to keep peace in the house, we have one terier,chiuauamix or something like that nobody knows for sure) who comes visiting and under straight rules this is fine, too.

"dipping her in life" that is something i totally agree, with. that is what helped Kessy tremendously, i already informed me when the next puppyclass is arround, well It is in February, would have loved it earlier, but no one else does it. I hope i can get my current trainer (policedogtrainer) to let her with his privat dogs-actually his wifes...) before February. That pup who ever it will be is getting socialized as much as I can. i even will take her to germany in spring, there it is much easyer to do some socialization in stores restuarnts a.s.o. plus we will go back to our old dogtrainingplace. well probably just for a couple weeks but well it'll be nice to be back for a while.

"Maybe i find someone who wants the chalange?" Yes if there is anybody out there who is willing to deal with that, my intuition tells me that will be quite some work. and i want to place that pup right, i don't want to put it with somebody who will realize after six month what he really bargened for and wants to get rid of her. I of course would take her back, but as you al know this is not something desireable. and so far they all just where looking for petquality...

The puppy test is already pretty close when they are 8 weeks old, to get a refined testresult you can do it roughly every two weeks, unfortunally i ran out of strangers..... well the people I would let do the test.

Am i ready for a easyer dog, well yes. thats what I thought, and thats what the litter was all about. i wanted great dogs that are a little easyer to handle.and keep one of them. That was what made the choice over the stud.
now i have what i have.

My lifestyle actually got more boring....
I has working 38h a week gave ridinglessons and went to dogtraining threetimes a week (well sun was tracking and or looong groupwalks)
Now it is work bout four hour a day and just one time dogtraining and no ridinglessons....
timewise it is more, health hasn't changed. but a good part of socialisation chances with other dogs are just gone.... I am in the middle of nowhere.

Well reaing what you all wrote and keep thinking about it. I think it is best and more peacefull when I keep the more petquality one.
I guess unconcious i am ready for something "nicer". and yes flyingdog you are right i can challange on my own.

Thanks for listening to me for given your input and taking to me about it. it really helped alot. you put me where i wanted to be, to make a clear decition not based on(too many) emotions.....

thanks you all, you were all very helpfull....
it took quite a worry of me

[Gerald]

I'm happy to read that things look like they are going to work out for you I am sure that you are going to make the right choice!!!

[Carrie]

I'm coming to this late, but it sounds like a less drivey dog would be better as far as a pet and perhaps would help the chances of fights. But that's a really hard thing to predict. I socialized the livin' you know what out of Lyric with other dogs and he is dog reactive, not necessarily aggressive all the time. So, I don't think you can feel assured about that area. But as far as being more of a pet and more of a contrast in drive from your other dog, maybe the easier going one would be better. But, I'm sure that's true that as good as those tests are, the puppies do go through changes influenced by many enviornmental factors which can alter some of those intrinsic traits to some degree. That's my uneducated guess anyhow. I think you're knowledgeable enough to make a nice dog out of either. I wouldn't agonize too much over this. Best wishes. Let us know how things go.