"Panda" GSDs

vonissk · 12-22-2004, 12:37 PM

http://www.furrarikennels.com I ran across this website yesterday and now I think I have seen it all.

Ritz459 · 12-23-2004, 09:46 AM

I just looked at the website and it didn't seem to bad. I know not everybody on here agrees with the 'White Shepherds' but I can't find anything wrong with them. They aren't Albino. It is just a differnent coat color. And I think of them as a different breed than the GSD.
The people that were breeding the dogs seemed ok by there website. (I didn't look around to much, but from what I saw it didn't make me run screaming in terror like WOC or that Game Town dogs place.) They health tested and their dogs had CGC, therapy and some CH. titles. I found nothing horribly wrong with it.

GSD · 12-23-2004, 10:36 AM

I"ve seen this before and still have my doubts. I know they claim to have a genetcist verifying things, but I still don't believe it. What did the geneticist do, read a pedigree, or actually find a mutations and verify where they were located??? I doubt their "geneticists did much of anything, but that's just my opinion. I've never seen another one like this, and have never heard of it happening before, but I guess it may have. Now they're going to breed exclusively white and "panda" shepherds?? The knock against white shepherds is the same as with any breed when you breed for on trait. To get the white color to be produced consistently it took lots of inbreeding and as a result (from what I've read and heard only) you ended up with lots of health and temperment issues. I've only ever known 2 white shepherds, both fit that bill, headcases. I"ve met other real GSD's that were as well, but were from what I would call bad breedings, and that's exactly what I classify white GSD's as, bad breedings. Now they created "a breed within a breed" they are going to breed those specifically??? how do you think they'll do that?? Lots of inbreeding, lots of it, you can count on that. They have the only one ever known to exist, what do you think they'll breed it to?? I'm sorry, others may say that some dogs don't have the same purpose that they were originally bred to do, well the GSD does. It has a purpose and job to do, and in this day in age we need more and better. It isn't a dog designed to be unique in color or pretty, it was meant to work. I wish kennels like this would fizzle off the face of the earth and be done with it. I doubt i'll ever get my wish, but hey

sthrnbelle · 12-23-2004, 01:05 PM

I have no problem with the white GSD's. But, I've never met one in real life so what do I know.

That "panda" GSD, on the other hand, just looked wrong. A very interesting wrong, but wrong none-the-less.

Crossfire Bulldogs · 12-23-2004, 02:41 PM

GSD has already pretty well said it all when it comes to my opinion on this one so I won't post a repeat. lol

IceyBlueSibes · 12-23-2004, 02:43 PM

I've seen that before... this is the site where the dog originated.

www.Lewcinkaskennels.com

The thing I find odd though, is that they ended up breeding her to an all black male (I think) and she had pups like her, but also had puppies of original Shepherd colors...

Her name is Franka... I do have to say she's a pretty dog though

Ritz459 · 12-23-2004, 06:25 PM

On the Panda GSD website, I didn't see any 'panda' markings. Just the White Shepherds. I've met a White Shepherd and she was a very pretty dog and was very sweet and friendly.

vonissk · 12-23-2004, 06:53 PM

For you guys that are talking about just the White Shepherds, then go back there and click on the Panda at the top and you will see what I am talking about. I have studied the GSD breed for over 20 years ahnd I cannot figure out where they got that color because there is no such color as that in the "real" GSD world. As far as the whites go, I have been around a lot of them and no go for me. I'm sure Max (von Stephanitz--the "father" of the GSD breed--is spinning in his grave as we speak. I think those Pandas are one of the ugliest dogs I have ever seen in my life and I sure hate to see that trend continue. GSD you know I am in total agreement with you. While I am on my soapbox about the whites, they are vying for breed seperation and in reality they are cutting their own throat. The AWSA--American White Shepherd Association--that is. There is not a large enbough gene pool to support such a move. UKC has given them seperate breed status but still allows the whites to be shown with the colored dogs. Now tell me a place where you can show a breed that has its own status, so to speak, in two different breed rings? No go for me. That is exactly why I quit showing and competing with UKC. IF you know anything about German bloodlines and you look at that dog's pedigree on the sire's side are some very well known names in exclusive German working lines. Very famous dogs. As I said before, where did that color come from? Also if you click on the dog's AKC papers it is registered as a black and tan, which it is certainly not. Regardless of my breeding practices, the GSD is first and foremost my love and I surely hate to see it downgraded anymore because that's not what the breed needs.

vonissk · 12-23-2004, 07:14 PM

Just thought I would come back and say that I misquoted something--I went back to the website and it was the other one--the link where the original one came from--and it is her who has the black and tan papers and the fantastic pedigree on the sire's side. Sorry.

Ritz459 · 12-24-2004, 06:32 AM

Now those 'Panda' GSDs I don't get at ALL. I don't really like the coloring either. (But they do look ok. They don't really have the 'look of eagles' though. lol) White Shepherds still have my vote (although normal GSDs are my #1 favorite.) but I'm thumbs down on the 'Panda' GSDs.

oc_spirit · 12-24-2004, 12:05 PM

The reason Franka was bred to a Black male GSD is because after analyzing DNA structures and dominant and recessive traits they learned that 1/2 the litter would be Panda coloured and 1/2 normal colouring and that's exactly how thing turned out so what can happen is they can take a Panda coloured pup and breed it to any GSD they wish and 1/2 the litter will still be Panda colouring. Ideally if they get a few strands going then later on in the pedigree they can eventually breed a Panda to a Panda and get exclussively Panda puppies (with perhaps the odd "normal"puppy).

That being said I still don't agree with it because basically they are simply turning themselves into a puppy mill. Franks and her offspring can't be shown in the conformation ring because their colouring would get them disqualified. Unless they prove themselves in another area such as ScH or obedience or summat IMO she should be spayed and just enjoyed for her lifespan.

Cheers!

PitBullie09 · 12-24-2004, 12:08 PM

I love White Shepherds. I think they are beautiful dogs. As for the Panda Shep. He was pretty but I dont think its right. It looked like a Catohuola (sp?) and a GSD mix.

Silverke · 03-29-2005, 04:14 PM

I breed 15 Years white sheperd dogs, since 1 januar 2003 a separate breed from the colored GSD. But this panda is not a natural color from the GSD. White are a natural color, the grandfather from Horand the dog from Max von Stephaniz are white. With the linebreeding on Horand are many white pups in the litters. But NEVER panda? More than 100 years GSD breeding and never a panda dog? I dont believe that. I think the female have another lover.I find the panda not beauthyful, and when this is a mutation, what give this colormutation for genetic diseases?

When this are my female no more puppys for her ,never I breed more pandas.

Silverke · 03-30-2005, 02:50 AM

I Think about this last night and remember me, that 7 years ago, a men from Holland tell about a white and colored GSD do a not planned mating and the puppys are ... yes panda. The parents are only petdogs, the puppys going as petdogs only. Most from the people dont like the color for a GSD.

calgal · 03-30-2005, 08:29 AM

Will the madness ever end? I hope so. There are just too many new breeds popping up all the time.

12-22-2004, 12:37 PM	#1 (permalink)
vonissk Minta Roper Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 214 Rep Power: 79	"Panda" GSDs http://www.furrarikennels.com I ran across this website yesterday and now I think I have seen it all.

12-23-2004, 09:46 AM	#2 (permalink)
Ritz459 "Nothing is ever easy" Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Indiana Posts: 5,730 Blog Entries: 3 Rep Power: 235	I just looked at the website and it didn't seem to bad. I know not everybody on here agrees with the 'White Shepherds' but I can't find anything wrong with them. They aren't Albino. It is just a differnent coat color. And I think of them as a different breed than the GSD. The people that were breeding the dogs seemed ok by there website. (I didn't look around to much, but from what I saw it didn't make me run screaming in terror like WOC or that Game Town dogs place.) They health tested and their dogs had CGC, therapy and some CH. titles. I found nothing horribly wrong with it.
	__________________ ~Blackie, Rose, Chloe (dogs), Pheobe (cat), Casey, Dameon (ferrets), Joey ('Tiel), Dot, Louie (cavies), Pickachu (hamster), Rush (R.I.P. 15yrs), Lucy (R.I.P. 4yrs)~

12-23-2004, 01:05 PM	#4 (permalink)
sthrnbelle bostonlover Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Tennessee Posts: 241 Rep Power: 81	I have no problem with the white GSD's. But, I've never met one in real life so what do I know. That "panda" GSD, on the other hand, just looked wrong. A very interesting wrong, but wrong none-the-less.
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12-23-2004, 02:41 PM	#5 (permalink)
Crossfire Bulldogs Sourmug Mom Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Snuggled Between The Snorts & Snores. Posts: 7,844 Blog Entries: 3 Rep Power: 285	GSD has already pretty well said it all when it comes to my opinion on this one so I won't post a repeat. lol
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12-23-2004, 02:43 PM	#6 (permalink)
IceyBlueSibes Eyes = Mirror to the soul Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Jupiter, Fla. Posts: 7,757 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 273	I've seen that before... this is the site where the dog originated. www.Lewcinkaskennels.com The thing I find odd though, is that they ended up breeding her to an all black male (I think) and she had pups like her, but also had puppies of original Shepherd colors... Her name is Franka... I do have to say she's a pretty dog though
	__________________ Sheiba, Denali, Ike, Nitro (Siberian Husky), Kelso (GSD x), Lugar (Boxer/Pit x), Willah (Shepherd/Husky x), Tibby, Cheech, Chong (Chihuahua), and any foster we have in the house! 9 Kitty cats!

12-23-2004, 10:36 AM	#3 (permalink)
GSD Herding dogs Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: WI Posts: 1,135 Rep Power: 139	I"ve seen this before and still have my doubts. I know they claim to have a genetcist verifying things, but I still don't believe it. What did the geneticist do, read a pedigree, or actually find a mutations and verify where they were located??? I doubt their "geneticists did much of anything, but that's just my opinion. I've never seen another one like this, and have never heard of it happening before, but I guess it may have. Now they're going to breed exclusively white and "panda" shepherds?? The knock against white shepherds is the same as with any breed when you breed for on trait. To get the white color to be produced consistently it took lots of inbreeding and as a result (from what I've read and heard only) you ended up with lots of health and temperment issues. I've only ever known 2 white shepherds, both fit that bill, headcases. I"ve met other real GSD's that were as well, but were from what I would call bad breedings, and that's exactly what I classify white GSD's as, bad breedings. Now they created "a breed within a breed" they are going to breed those specifically??? how do you think they'll do that?? Lots of inbreeding, lots of it, you can count on that. They have the only one ever known to exist, what do you think they'll breed it to?? I'm sorry, others may say that some dogs don't have the same purpose that they were originally bred to do, well the GSD does. It has a purpose and job to do, and in this day in age we need more and better. It isn't a dog designed to be unique in color or pretty, it was meant to work. I wish kennels like this would fizzle off the face of the earth and be done with it. I doubt i'll ever get my wish, but hey

12-23-2004, 06:25 PM	#7 (permalink)
Ritz459 "Nothing is ever easy" Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Indiana Posts: 5,730 Blog Entries: 3 Rep Power: 235	On the Panda GSD website, I didn't see any 'panda' markings. Just the White Shepherds. I've met a White Shepherd and she was a very pretty dog and was very sweet and friendly.
	__________________ ~Blackie, Rose, Chloe (dogs), Pheobe (cat), Casey, Dameon (ferrets), Joey ('Tiel), Dot, Louie (cavies), Pickachu (hamster), Rush (R.I.P. 15yrs), Lucy (R.I.P. 4yrs)~

12-23-2004, 06:53 PM	#8 (permalink)
vonissk Minta Roper Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 214 Rep Power: 79	For you guys that are talking about just the White Shepherds, then go back there and click on the Panda at the top and you will see what I am talking about. I have studied the GSD breed for over 20 years ahnd I cannot figure out where they got that color because there is no such color as that in the "real" GSD world. As far as the whites go, I have been around a lot of them and no go for me. I'm sure Max (von Stephanitz--the "father" of the GSD breed--is spinning in his grave as we speak. I think those Pandas are one of the ugliest dogs I have ever seen in my life and I sure hate to see that trend continue. GSD you know I am in total agreement with you. While I am on my soapbox about the whites, they are vying for breed seperation and in reality they are cutting their own throat. The AWSA--American White Shepherd Association--that is. There is not a large enbough gene pool to support such a move. UKC has given them seperate breed status but still allows the whites to be shown with the colored dogs. Now tell me a place where you can show a breed that has its own status, so to speak, in two different breed rings? No go for me. That is exactly why I quit showing and competing with UKC. IF you know anything about German bloodlines and you look at that dog's pedigree on the sire's side are some very well known names in exclusive German working lines. Very famous dogs. As I said before, where did that color come from? Also if you click on the dog's AKC papers it is registered as a black and tan, which it is certainly not. Regardless of my breeding practices, the GSD is first and foremost my love and I surely hate to see it downgraded anymore because that's not what the breed needs.

12-23-2004, 07:14 PM	#9 (permalink)
vonissk Minta Roper Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 214 Rep Power: 79	Just thought I would come back and say that I misquoted something--I went back to the website and it was the other one--the link where the original one came from--and it is her who has the black and tan papers and the fantastic pedigree on the sire's side. Sorry.

12-24-2004, 06:32 AM	#10 (permalink)
Ritz459 "Nothing is ever easy" Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Indiana Posts: 5,730 Blog Entries: 3 Rep Power: 235	Now those 'Panda' GSDs I don't get at ALL. I don't really like the coloring either. (But they do look ok. They don't really have the 'look of eagles' though. lol) White Shepherds still have my vote (although normal GSDs are my #1 favorite.) but I'm thumbs down on the 'Panda' GSDs.
	__________________ ~Blackie, Rose, Chloe (dogs), Pheobe (cat), Casey, Dameon (ferrets), Joey ('Tiel), Dot, Louie (cavies), Pickachu (hamster), Rush (R.I.P. 15yrs), Lucy (R.I.P. 4yrs)~

12-24-2004, 12:05 PM	#11 (permalink)
oc_spirit Snow Girl Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,615 Rep Power: 144	The reason Franka was bred to a Black male GSD is because after analyzing DNA structures and dominant and recessive traits they learned that 1/2 the litter would be Panda coloured and 1/2 normal colouring and that's exactly how thing turned out so what can happen is they can take a Panda coloured pup and breed it to any GSD they wish and 1/2 the litter will still be Panda colouring. Ideally if they get a few strands going then later on in the pedigree they can eventually breed a Panda to a Panda and get exclussively Panda puppies (with perhaps the odd "normal"puppy). That being said I still don't agree with it because basically they are simply turning themselves into a puppy mill. Franks and her offspring can't be shown in the conformation ring because their colouring would get them disqualified. Unless they prove themselves in another area such as ScH or obedience or summat IMO she should be spayed and just enjoyed for her lifespan. Cheers!
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12-24-2004, 12:08 PM	#12 (permalink)
PitBullie09 ACD/Pit Bull Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,477 Rep Power: 131	I love White Shepherds. I think they are beautiful dogs. As for the Panda Shep. He was pretty but I dont think its right. It looked like a Catohuola (sp?) and a GSD mix.
	__________________

03-29-2005, 04:14 PM	#13 (permalink)
Silverke Silverke Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 76 Rep Power: 0	White and Panda? I breed 15 Years white sheperd dogs, since 1 januar 2003 a separate breed from the colored GSD. But this panda is not a natural color from the GSD. White are a natural color, the grandfather from Horand the dog from Max von Stephaniz are white. With the linebreeding on Horand are many white pups in the litters. But NEVER panda? More than 100 years GSD breeding and never a panda dog? I dont believe that. I think the female have another lover.I find the panda not beauthyful, and when this is a mutation, what give this colormutation for genetic diseases? When this are my female no more puppys for her ,never I breed more pandas.
	__________________ Responsibel breeder = good health + golden character = silver beauthy

03-30-2005, 02:50 AM	#14 (permalink)
Silverke Silverke Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 76 Rep Power: 0	Panda?? I Think about this last night and remember me, that 7 years ago, a men from Holland tell about a white and colored GSD do a not planned mating and the puppys are ... yes panda. The parents are only petdogs, the puppys going as petdogs only. Most from the people dont like the color for a GSD.
	__________________ Responsibel breeder = good health + golden character = silver beauthy

03-30-2005, 08:29 AM	#15 (permalink)
calgal My Yorkster kids! Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: central ca. coast Posts: 6,807 Rep Power: 232	Will the madness ever end? I hope so. There are just too many new breeds popping up all the time.

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