Mini Esk/Pom Cross?

[FurSuccess]

I was wondering if anyone had ever owned (or bred) a mini eskimo/pom cross...

I would imagine it would turn out as kind of a small version of the eskie since they are both spitz dogs. But I am curious about anyone who's ever had or bred a cross like this.

[Cassiepeia]

That would be an interesting cross. You could have a look on petfinder.com to see if there are any currently in a shelter. I'm sure they'd have eskie mixes on there, they have everything else. LOL
Do you mind me asking why you're curious, are you thinking about adding a lovely crossbred dog to your family?

Cass.

EDIT: I just saw your other post about breeding & titled dogs. You're not thinking of breeding this mix are you?

[FurSuccess]

I am considering it, because the eskie female is an excellent candidate for breeding to my TINY (3lbs) pomeranian. I am very choosy in breeding him, because

1) I don't feel comfortable breeding him to some of the super tiny females I see.....I have a feeling that many wouldn't be able to survive a litter.

2) She is larger than him, and "makes up" for some of his faults while strengthening his good points.

Don't start a big debate or flame session, please...I am not selling to pet shops or setting up a puppy mill. I just think that the pomeranian breeding program lately could use a little influence from another similar spitz breed--I'm not out to create the next big labradoodle type fad (no offense to labradoodle fanciers )

I have done a lot of homework and research on dogs and I know that the pom originally stemmed from breeding down of spitz dogs, so I don't think that this is an absolutely sinister idea.

(There--Enough defending myself now....)

[flyndog]

So you are introducing "mini" eski stock to your pom lines? No flames here. This is the mixed breed/mutt forum.

[Carrie]

Don't start a big debate or flame session, please...

Well, all right, but don't bait me then. You don't know the half of what I feel about purposely breeding mixed breed dogs. You'd have had to been on this board longer and read through some of the threads regarding breeding mixed breeds and breeding untested, substandard purebreds by back yard breeders, which is exactly what you are.

[flyndog]

Now, now, Carrie. Maybe Fursuccess has been breeding dogs for years and has done all the genetic research needed to successfully upgrade the Pomeranian and somehow make it better than those oldtimers who made the Pom a couple hundred years ago.

My daddy always said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Cassiepeia]

Well, I think the both of you (flyn & Carrie) know how feel about purposely cross breeding dogs too (designer mutt companions not working dogs of course). But I was thinking about this and I know that originally the pom was a much larger dog. So assuming Fursuccess really has been a responsible reputable breeder of poms for quite a while, perhaps trying to breed poms that are similar to the original isn't such a crime (I'm assuming that's what was meant... breeding a larger version of the pomeranian).

Of course I'm being super generous with my assumptions here. My first thought was "Beware, beware...back yard breeder alert! Beware!". It's still ringing in the back of my head...but I thought I'd add a different perspective anyway.

Cass.

[Carrie]

Dobermans were much, much different too in the beginning. They sucked. They've improved them over the years. Now, the only thing needed, IMO is their health situation. There's always a balancing act with their temperament too....to keep them able to work, but mellow enough to be a good pet. But they don't need to change them into a different looking dog anymore. They're beautiful. These byb's who breed giant sized Dobermans tick me off. That ruins them.

So, to my way of thinking, real breeders have done the work. They haven't introduced a different breed into the mix for ages...since the beginning. They breed from Dobermans, not other breeds. Fixing a geno type isn't easy and it takes time, know how and a big plan . So, that's why I'm skeptical of people who are mixing breeds, claiming to be doing these fantastic things.

My daddy always said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

You ain't just a whistling Dixie!
Plus, there are already enough breeds out there. There has got to be something that will work for anyone and everyone. And the shelters are overflowing with mixed breed dogs.

[Ritz459]

Originally Posted by Cassiepeia

Well, I think the both of you (flyn & Carrie) know how feel about purposely cross breeding dogs too (designer mutt companions not working dogs of course). But I was thinking about this and I know that originally the pom was a much larger dog. So assuming Fursuccess really has been a responsible reputable breeder of poms for quite a while, perhaps trying to breed poms that are similar to the original isn't such a crime (I'm assuming that's what was meant... breeding a larger version of the pomeranian).

So that would make it sorta like how the Shiloh Shepherd is to the GSDs. THe Shiloh Shepherds were bred to be more like the 'old' GSDs and not like alot of the highstrung, I-have-to-work GSds today.

[Cassiepeia]

Originally Posted by Ritz459

So that would make it sorta like how the Shiloh Shepherd is to the GSDs. THe Shiloh Shepherds were bred to be more like the 'old' GSDs and not like alot of the highstrung, I-have-to-work GSds today.

I guess so..ummm. I don't know much about the GSD. But I know that pomeranians were much larger originally some weighing 30lbs and it was Queen Victoria who pushed towards the downsizing of the breed because she preferred the smaller versions which were starting to be bred in Pomerania and it became a bit of a fashion in England (I hope I got that right...please, any pomeranian fanciers, feel free to educate me if I'm wrong). I was just playing devils advocate and saying that perhaps that was what the idea was here.
Of course I agree that we don't really need any more breeds and it would take someone with a lot of knowledge and experience in the subject to actually achieve that kind of goal.

"Beware! Back yard breeder!" is still screaming in the back of my mind though.

Cass.

[Crossfire Bulldogs]

I personally think the original poster got exactly what they wanted out of this thread, which was a reaction but not the one they were looking for. jmo

If I'm wrong my apologies Fur but there sure does seem to be a ton of bait flying about.

[FurSuccess]

Well, I wasn't really looking for any reaction per se, just curious if anyone else had a dog of this breeding because I am considering it and thought that perhaps somebody might already have done something of the effect. Thats all...just part of my homework.

Now really. I am not a puppy mill, and I am not dedicated to breeding purebred, papered show dogs. I guess maybe I have to be slammed into the byb category if I must.

And actually, I would consider breeding purebred poms--but I won't
for this reason:I take issue with the Pomeranian breeders who spend their efforts breeding dogs so small that they are incapable of whelping. This fad of breeding dogs so tiny is everywhere I turn... and the pomeranian breeders simply tell their sad stories about lost litters and mums because of their small sizes; and then sigh about the pom being a "heartbreaking" breed.

I think that there is room for improvement, thats all. I'm not just breeding any old dog that comes my way. This isn't schnauzers and collies. The esk and pom are related breeds, and my male and female are good breeding animals.

[Cassiepeia]

I can see your point.
Are you working with any pom breeders who feel the same way about the tiny size of the pom? If not, how can you improve the breed when your dogs pups won't be included in the Pomeranian gene pool? That would kind of miss the point for me.
Do you show your dogs? How do you know they're good breeding animals?

Cass.

[PatM]

Hi. This is my first post. I meant to lurk a while and get to know how things worked here but have to answer this. My hubby and I recently (2 mo) adopted a mixed breed from our animal control. We named him Loki and believe him to be about 8 mo old now. Between the staff there and I we decided he is pom/spitz or eskimo dog cross. Frankly, he's adorable! Very smart...can almost see those little gears turning as he takes everything in. Quite alert and quick. Loves the snow and cold (we're in Montana)...digs his face in a snowbank and comes up laughing! Much longer legs than a pom. Loves to run flat out--can turn on a dime. Outgoing and friendly toward other people and dogs. Has the foxy face but with a longer muzzle and big brown eyes. Lots of fur. Fine bones and build. Ears are small and pointed. Coloring is sort of darker apricot and cream. He's a dog who needs a lot of excercise. Does have this wonderful high-pitched, persistant yap.LOL
Wonder what your thoughts on dog parks are. Have heard both pro and con.
Glad to be here. PatM

[WingedFoal]

Originally Posted by Cassiepeia

I can see your point.
Are you working with any pom breeders who feel the same way about the tiny size of the pom? If not, how can you improve the breed when your dogs pups won't be included in the Pomeranian gene pool? That would kind of miss the point for me.
Do you show your dogs? How do you know they're good breeding animals?

Cass.

That's what I was wondering. Have you had either dog tested or shown them to see if they are good specimens of their own breed at least? Looking at them and saying they are pretty doesn't count. I can look at my Boston Tasmo all day and say he is a good specimen for a Boston, but that doesn't factor in his flaws (he was supposed to be shown until I found out he has patellar luxation, a genetic problem, and something I will not allow to be passed onto other dogs).

If you do end up breeding them, what if the puppies turned out the opposite of what you expected? I'm sure you'd find good homes for them all, but besides that, what would you have really accomplished? Just adding to the overpopulation of mixed breeds to me. JMO though.

And supposing they turned out like you expected, what wou