Wants to buy a dog - Shiba, where to start??

[powa]

I live in Canada - Toronto area, I would like to have a shiba inu. I want this dog probably i am an asian and it's actually quiet popular in asia too. But i don't see that much in Canada, i've done some search on the internet and i can't find any in the breeders (only breeder i found with shiba is in Alberta or some in US). Can anyone tell me how to start looking? should i even bother the farm that's really far from where i live? should i call the farm that's near my home and ask if they have that dog? I asked a pet shop and they said they could get it from their private breeder, but the thing is pet shop usually cost a lot, that's why im approaching the farm, please give me some advice =)

[Cassiepeia]

Be very careful where you buy from.

NEVER buy from a petshop. Petshops are supplied by backyard breeders and puppymills, which sell unhealthy and unsound pets. These people are only in it for the money not the breed.
You'll want to find a reputable breeder, and unfortunately that means you may have to travel a bit. If you really have your heart set on this breed, it'll be worth it though.
Find someone who shows their dogs and who has a good reputation.
You might also want to try a rescue, they do sometimes have puppies and at the very least they may know some good reputable breeders you can contact (good breeders are almost always involved in rescue).
Here is a link for shiba rescue http://national.shibarescue.org/ , I think it's American (sorry I could find a Canadian one) but they should be able to help you find one in your area if you contact them.
Here is a site that has info on the breed and lists a few breeders in Canada http://www.angelfire.com/or/Shiba/roster.html#can

We also have someone on here who shows Shiba's, her screen name is Sayuri. I hope she'll be along soon to talk to you about her breed of choice.

Cass.

[oc_spirit]

Hello and welcome!! How far are you willing to drive to get a pup? I live in Elmira, ON (1/2hr away from Kitchener) and my mushing mentor just got a shiba this past winter. I could ask for the breeder info if you'd like.

Here are all the Shiba Inu breeders in Ontario listed with the Dogs in Canada magazine

Bestfriend Reg'd, Steven Watson. Puppies guaranteed. Stud service. Stayner, ON L0M 1S0. (705-428-3039).

Broadhurst Carol, Kortar Perm Reg'd. No 3 Shiba 2003. Pet-therapy working Shibas. RR 4, Kemptville, ON K0G 1J0. (613-258-5990; e-mail: va3tuf@rac.ca).

Cusona Perm Reg'd, Kit & John Wilson, 1424 Jarvis Rd, RR 6, Kingston, ON K7L 4V3. (613-542-0995; e-mail: wilsonj@rmc.ca). (See display advertisement in Breeders' Showcase.)

Davis Patricia, Gemstar Reg'd. Top-quality puppies, excellent temperaments. Twenty minutes west of Hamilton. 135 Weir Rd N, Lynden, ON L0R 1T0. (519-647-2428; e-mail: tdavis@bfree.on.ca). (See display advertisement in Breeders' Showcase.)

Williamson Carol, ShyGuy Kennels. Written guarantees on all pups. Superb quality, temperament. PO Box 286, Sunderland, ON L0C 1H0. (705-357-2194).

Wyzguys Reg'd, Marion Weiberg. Beautiful puppies. Home raised. Companion, show and occasionally young adults. Stud service available. Written health guarantee. Visit our web page. Quality isn't expensive, it's priceless! RR 6, 11812 Longwoods Rd, Thamesville, ON N0P 2K0. (519-351-1717; e-mail: mweibe@mnsi.net; web site: www.geocities.com/wyzguys/).

[powa]

wow thanks for the great reply! those are great info and the list definiately helps! at least i know there are hope for a shiba pet now by the way what's breeder showcase? (im very very new to all these)

Well im probably willing to drive for 2 hrs from where i live, so within 2 hrs drive would be wonderful

[chocolatecoffee]

Are you specifically looking for a puppy, or just a young dog? Do you want a purebred, or is a cross where Shiba Inu is the dominant breed okay?

I found a Shiba Inu X at the Alliston and District Humane Society (www.allistonhumane.com), which is apparently 1 hour, 12 minutes away from Toronto. This is what they said: "Tiki" 1 yr Shiba Inu X, S/F, good with cats & dogs, This shy girl is recovering from the shock of being abandoned. (705) 435-1271

I'll keep my eye open for anything.

[powa]

thx for the help

btw, i would like to ask should i choose a girl or boy? what's advantage/disadvantage of those 2? does the girl has period after being sprayed? does boy has problem peeing only in the corner and stuff like that?

[chocolatecoffee]

Getting a male or female dog is all personal preference. Females do not go into heat after they are spayed. Some males do mark (as do some females, but it is much more common in males), especially unneutered males, but this behaviour usually gets better after the male is neutered and you can also try to train a dog not to mark. However, the later a male is neutered, the less chance that he will stop marking as he gets used to the behaviour.

Some people say that females are more affectionate, while others say that males are, I think it depends on the individual dog. Also, males do tend to be bigger than females of the same breed. If you are going to get a puppy, spaying a female is more expensive than neutering a male, so that might be something to consider.

Here is a good page on male vs. female: http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/buying/common/sex.html

[calgal]

There are about 25 breeders in Canada at this site: http://www.dogsincanada.com/breeds/shiba_inu.html I'm sure if you e-mailed them you would find what your looking for.

[oc_spirit]

"Breeder's Showcase" is simply a section of the magazine I got the breeder's list from (off the internet though). Actually it's from the URL that calgal gave you! If you look in the Dogs In Canada Annual 2005 edition you will see a section called "Breeders Showcase" where breeders can place their own ad complete with pictures and special points about their kennel, the other section is just the basic info about each kennel (what I posted) Does that make sense?

[GreenleafGreyhound]

Powa, I highly suggest you PM Sayuri. Shibas are notorious for their independance and introvertedness, which offsets many first time dog owners. Better yet, I'll notify her that you're considering acquiring a Shiba.

[Sayuri]

Hi there Powa,
Greenleaf let me know you were interested in getting a Shiba, so I thought I'd drop by and check out your thread.

I've been in the breed for around nine years, have two Shibas of my own, and work with and am mentored by several breeders as well. I'll host litters or single pups in my home for socialization, and am engaged in a continual process of education when it comes to this breed. Shibas are my greatest passion. Eventually I'll begin a kennel of my own - for now I am content to learn and show my single, show quality b1tch.


Have you done plenty of research to make certain this is absolutely, without a doubt, the right breed for you? Shibas are a *great* breed as long as you are prepared for them. For someone unprepared for their quirks, characteristics, and attitudes, they are an absolute nightmare. I did several years of research before acquiring my first dog, and was glad I did - being prepared allowed me to do very well with a breed that is not typically a great with a "first time owner." People that impulse-buy Shibas without knowing the breed backward and forward often dump them later and label them "monsters" or "impossible."

As far as looking into a breeder, you want to do a *lot* of research. As previous posters have said, DO NOT, under ANY circumstances, acquire a Shiba puppy from a pet store. They come from puppy mills, may have severe genetic issues and personality disorders, and are often taken from their dam and littermates too early, which means important lessons such as bite inhibition are being missed. You don't want a Shiba that didn't learn bite inhibition - most of them are little pirhanas during puppyhood anyway - and remember, this is an animal capable of taking down and killing wild boar, and hunting bear. What's a cute nipping puppy initially is going to mature into an animal that's capable of incredible damage. Often people don't take Shibas seriously because they're small. Don't make that mistake - before I acquired my first dog, my breeder showed me photos of Shibas doing the job they were bred to do: eviscerating a wild boar. If your pup misses out learning on who it is ok to bite, when it is ok to bite, and how hard it is ok to bite...you're in for some hard times. Pet store puppies often have issues during potty training (read: they're extremely hard to potty train) - wellbred pups from reputable breeders, on the other hand, often come home already knowing what to do and where to do it. My two did.

I do not live in Canada, so most of the breeders that I know are American - however, two names off the top of my head that I *believe* are in Canada are Sunojo kennel, and Akashima kennel. I've heard very good things about Sunojo and highly recommend you take a look at her dogs; Akashima I haven't heard as much from, but she's worth looking into as well - I believe she also raises Shikoku. Search for either of these kennels on the internet, both I believe have websites. Make certain you ask your prospective breeder tons of questions - do they OFA or Penn Hip? CERF? How have their dogs fared at national specialties and in the show ring in general? How did they get involved in the breed? How long have they been involved? Who do they work with, and who do they admire in the breed? Also - make certain the breeder is asking YOU tons of questions. The best Shiba breeders are very wary about who their pups go to, as it's not an "easy" breed and DEFINITELY not the right breed for the majority of the population. They'll be wanting to weed out anyone that is really unsuited to owning the breed.

Do you have a fenced yard? There are few good breeders that will sell to someone without one, unless that person lives in an apartment and agrees that the dog will not be let offlead. If your passion is watching your dog gallop free on the beach or in the park, you'll be disappointed with a Shiba. Their recall is notoriously horrible, and their drive to run, chase, and hunt so strong, that even people with CD and CDX (GASP! An amazing feat in this breed) Shibas are generally extremely wary about letting their dog offlead. It's just not a good idea, especially because the dogs really do get a sadistic sort of pleasure off of watching you chase them, panicked and screaming.

Shibas are an independent breed - if you want a little shadow around the house, an animal that will do backflips to be at your service, a dog that will excel in obedience...you'll be extremely disappointed. People that aren't used to this type of behavior often confuse it for stupidity...nothing could be further from the truth. As I like to say, "what's so stupid about an animal that learns a command in five minutes at the most, and then immediately sets out discovering how best to use that command (or refusal of that command) to manipulate YOU?" With some breeds, when an owner says "sit" the dog says "Of course! What else can I do?!" The Shiba says "what's in it for me, and why on earth should I?" The trick is to get the dog to think it was his idea, to keep training innovative and interesting, and to keep sessions short. In other words, you've got to be smarter than your dog...not an easy thing to do when you're sharing a home with a Shiba

Which brings me to my other point...I say "sharing" because living with a Shiba is a lot less like "owning" than it is "respectfully coexisting." One of the reasons I love this breed is that you must *earn* its respect - they don't fawn all over you immediately, and they take leadership roles extremely seriously. You're respectful, you're a calm and confident leader, you do what needs to be done well and unobtrusively, then you'll gain a Shibas trust and respect. Expect to be challenged for leadership and be confident enough to respond to the challenge (but with intelligence - not yelling and screaming, not abuse, not tantrums and the like - those behaviors are all the mark of a subordinate anyway and your Shiba will lose respect for you and remain completely unconvinced of your competence). If you have no idea how to go about this, have never owned a breed of similar character, etc, you will want to make certain your dog comes from a breeder that will be your lifetime mentor and will be ready and willing to help you learn to work with the unique personality of the Shiba. There is nothing more rewarding than having a strong bond and relationship with your Shiba that really works - it's fun and amazing beyond words, and it opens up windows for you to goof off and pal around too! Shibas have *amazing* and deliciously wicked senses of humor...some people don't find their antics amusing...I do.

Shibas enjoy killing things. It's a good thing to be aware of if you have small pets at home. Particularly anything in the rodent family. Puppies can be trained to respect family cats (but won't necessarily extend the olive branch to strange cats), but other animals make fair game. So, in fact, do objects - Tai and Kimi enjoy ritualistically slaughtering stuffed animals and toys; while other times they will lull the toy into a false sense of security over a period of months, carrying it around, tossing it about, but never harming it...and then out of the blue disembowling it.

Males or females? As far as the breed goes, for the most part, males tend to be more "lovey-dovey" than females do. (Of course, this is the Shiba we're talking about - loveydovey for a Shiba is VERY different than loveydovey for a Golden Retriever. My two get very excited when I come home from an extended absence, will greet me at the door with a few tail wags and a presented toy for a shorter absence, and will sleep with me at night. Strangers, if they for some reason appeal to them, will receive some tail wags and a toy greeting, and then are left alone unless they're willing to play ball with Kimi, or scratch above Tai's tail. Many people that meet them for the first time are offended and upset, claiming, "your dogs don't like me!" I tell them their greeting was typical and perfectly friendly - they're just not as into other people as they are into themselves). B1tches tend to be more "feral" and standoffish (there is, of course, a lot of variation within individual dogs, but this is the general overview you're getting). If you spay your b1tch, she will not come into heat (meaning no spotting to deal with). As far as problems peeing in a corner...I'm afraid I'm not sure what you mean by this. Most males are going to lift their leg, but they enjoy doing this EVERYWHERE (though not, of course, inside the house, providing you've gotten your Shiba from a good breeder and have done a good job potty training). As a matter of fact, many dominant b1tches in the breed lift their legs as well - mine does. Many people in Shibas believe that males are a little easier for first timers to handle.

If you're looking for a cuddly breed - this is not it. Though I've met a few Shibas that really enjoy being cuddled, a lot of them will only just tolerate it, sometimes for only a few seconds, and some really do look at it as almost a personal affront if you just march right up and initiate cuddling. This doesn't mean they don't enjoy personal contact, just that they don't want it 24/7 and honestly prefer to initiate the contact themselves (rolling over for a tummy rub, or backing up into you to have their tails scratched).

Beyond anything else, I suggest you RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH - buy every book you can on the breed (in particular, you MUST own The Total Shiba by Susan Houser and Gretchen Haskett - it's the best Shiba publication to be had), visit breeders at dog shows and talk to them about the breed, read anything you can get your hands on, and ask questions of experienced Shiba owners. Visit the excellent website "The Misanthropic Shiba," which is a joke, but is also one of the most eye-opening and dead-on accounts of owning a Shiba that I have ever read. If you go into this prepared, you'll have a very rewarding experience ahead of you. Please feel free to pm me or ask any questions on the thread. I may come off as a bit strident or excited, but I'm just extremely passionate about the breed, and feel it's my duty to represent it accurately.

[powa]

wow thx so much for the reply, your infomation surely helps a lot for me. Didn't know Shiba Inu is such a hard pet =)

Something I would really need to know since they will be my concerns when i have a pet:
1) Needs to be litter trained
Do this has problem at all for some dogs? my parents want house to remain clean, if he pee everywhere it's just not good

2) not to bite/scratch sofa/floor
Anything to prevent?

3) Not to bark especially at night
Will this be a problem when i bring the puppy home the first few days?

For the above 3 are my main main concerns, if i could control the above 3 i wouldn't have any problem with the dog at all, please gimmie some comment on those and tips as how I could train them to do those things, thanks a lot! =)

[Sayuri]

Let's get right to your questions.

The first one is the one that has me the most concerned. Why does this dog need to be litter trained? Will it not have access to a fenced yard? If this is the case then I'm going to remind you right now that just because the Shiba is small does not mean that it doesn't need exercise. In Japan the show Shibas are often road worked along bicycles for fifteen miles a day - this just gives you an idea of what they are capable of. Shibas in the US are usually not worked to those extraordinary levels, but the ones that have free yard access (like mine, and again, the yard is *fenced,* should have at least a half hour walk a day, and would enjoy some other fun mixed up in there as well. My dog likes agility while my b1tch enjoys playing fetch).

But back to the litter box. I have yet to meet anyone that has litter trained their Shiba. I'm not saying that it can't be done - I honestly don't know if it can or not - but I'll give you some information so that you can make an informed, honest decision. Shibas HATE poor hygeine - it absolutely grosses them out. They insist on being clean and take great pride in it, quite literally. When a Shiba puppy comes home from a reputable breeder, it is almost always close to 100% potty trained - any accidents it has are purely the fault of the owner who missed all of the warning signs. However, when I say potty trained, I mean to go *outdoors* - so a Shiba that is being asked to go indoors is going to be confused - and probably a little disgusted. He sees the indoors as a place that he shouldn't soil in, and now he's being asked to do it? Ugh! How awful, is what he is going to think. Shibas also enjoy being able to mark up their territory, and that opportunity will be lost to them in the litter box. What I am trying to say, I guess, is that this is probably not an ideal breed for anyone that wants to litter train - you can talk to breeders (again, reputable breeders, both of the options you mentioned in your original post are unequivocally unacceptable. You cannot get a decent Shiba from them), and see what they think - it is possible they know someone has done it. However, from my personal experience, dogs that were asked to eliminate inside once they came home from a breeder that taught them (and rightly so) to go *outside,* grew frustrated and often regressed in potty training. Shibas just do not love to go indoors.

You are going to have to talk at length with breeders and exhibitors about this - but a few things you should know off the bat about training ANY dog to use a litter box: the box needs to be away from the sleeping area and the food and water bowls. Animals do not like to eliminate near where they eat and drink or where they sleep. The box will need to be changed very often. Emphasis on the VERY. Ever been to a house where the cat box isn't changed enough and you can smell the urine? It's going to be ten times worse with a dog! The fact that it's a Shiba doesn't mean it's that small - the amount they eliminate is still much larger than a cat - I know because I have both, and I can't even imagine having Shiba poo inside the house. You don't want your guests to come over and smell that.

[Sayuri]

I'm splitting up responses to give your eye a bit of a break

Your second question is all about training. YOU need to train the dog what is ok to bite and scratch, and what is not. There is no puppy that comes home perfect, knowing exactly what it should or shouldn't chew up and destroy, and Shibas are a little less than perfect, lol! Let me put it this way - when someone sees my dogs and exclaims that they want one, I ask them how willing they'd be to invite a little piece of the devil into their home. If this makes them laugh but keeps them intrigued, then I go indepth. If I get any other kind of response, I tell them there are probably some other breeds out there more to their liking.

Shibas love to KILL things - and not just things that used to be alive. Inanimate things. We have a mauled piano bench, a few chair legs with bite marks, a bit of torn carpet, a leather sofa that was moved around in order to hide the torn back...you get the picture. This all happened during puppyhood, when Tai and Kimi were learning about what was appropriate to chew on, and what was not - what I'm saying is that that kind of damage was *normal* and we accepted it as our fault and responsibility - we weren't watching closely enough when Tai got to the piano bench, we thought that Bitter Apple would have deterred Kimi from chewing on the chair legs. Oh well, you live and learn, and you tell yourself to be more vigilant. Dog chewing on something it shouldn't be? Make a trade - give it a toy that it's allowed to chew up (and none of those horrible flimsy rubber ones from the supermarket - Shibas will mutilate those in seconds, and the rubber pieces pose a danger to their intestinal tracts). But with a Shiba, you're going to have to be really patient about the biting - they are mouthy little devils as pups (Tai's nickname was "Pirahna Face" and Kimi was "ooohyoulilbitchy"), and chewing on things is how they learn. If you have never raised a puppy through this stage, let alone a nordic breed, you are going to need to buy several training books, or get them at the library - and these need to be good books that emphasize positive reinforcement. BURN anything that sounds even remotely like "The Kohler Method of Dog Training" - it's not going to work for a Shiba, and I wouldn't use it on ANY kind of dog regardless.

Floors? You need to keep the nails clipped short. Do you enjoy wrestling alligators? Good - you'll love having a Shiba! Nail clipping is probably one of the most fascinating parts of owning a Shiba, and by fascinating, I mean, be prepared to hear screams that sound as if your family is being massacred coming out of just one little dog. The dog is struggling and fighting the entire way, as you are trying to operate the clippers without cutting the quick. OH JOY! Get your puppy used to it EARLY - otherwise, you will be in for living hell. You can get most Shibas to just tolerate it, maybe only whining a little, or a just barely raised lip - in fact, some will end up pretending you're not even there. But there are others that, no matter how good you were about doing it early and often and getting them used to you handling their feet, will fight you. I know, because I've been there - having literally three people trying to hold a dog down while it kicks and barks and screams is not fun - but those nails still get done. Otherwise, be prepared for your floors to be scratched when your dog does the Indy 500 indoors, and be prepared for those nice little cat feet to end up not quite so conformationally correct in the end.

I need to emphasize, if you have never trained a dog before, learning on a Shiba is kind of like jumping into one of those cars designed to break the sound barrier to learn how to drive. It doesn't mean it can't be done, but what it does mean is that you better go in having read more, practiced more, listened more, watched more, and learned more than everyone else. The Shiba is not an easy dog first time, but it was my first dog, and now I am without a doubt in love. Why? Because when I got my first puppy I'd spent years learning about Shibas themselves, scouring books and the internet, talking to breeders, going to dog shows, ordering videos, and I'd spent even more years prior to those just learning about dogs in general, even training them for people, despite the fact that I'd never owned one. When my sister and I talked to the breeder for the first time, she was very impressed with how much we knew. And know what? I'm still learning - I will *never* know everything there is to know, but I'll continue to study as if I will - that is the kind of passion the Shiba inspires in me.

Barking? At night? The Shiba is not typically a loudmouth breed - they aren't really into barking at nothing or for no reason - but there are always individuals that prove exceptions to the rule. If you don't want your Shiba to bark at certain times, you have to train it not to. Provide it with things to do, don't let it get bored, and don't reward it for barking. When your puppy first comes home, it's probably going to be a bit lonely and it's going to bark and whine - this means you're going to have to make it comfortable and happy without rewarding it for barking. Talk to your breeder, read and study - I can't emphasize this enough.

Any more questions or comments? Please feel free.