I have another question

[shandoggy1]

Definately invest in the crate like everyone suggested it is a god sent Years ago it wan't a common thing around here either but its to bad it took so long to figure out how easy and wonderful it is. It makes house training a breeze. It will make you a much happier puppy parent . You are supposed to get a crate to whatever the size the dog will become full grown. Good luck!

[Shazz]

I have been researching crate training on the net, and they do not recommend it for puppies as young as mine, as they can not hold their bladder for long periods on time anyway.

What experience have you had with pups so young?

[Shadowkins]

So I guess that means NOT to use the crate if the puppy is being naughty...eg constantly nipping??[/quote]

Well, personally, I wouldn't ...not for being naughty...I would be afraid your pup will associate the crate with punishment and that's not what you want. In time your pup will see the crate as a safe place, I know mine did.
For the first few years, he slept in his crate at night and went in his crate if we had to leave for awhile...that way I was sure he wouldn't have any accidents or get into trouble when I wasn't there. In time , as he got older , I could trust him outside the crate for quite awhile...but the crate was always there with the gate open for him to use if he wanted too.
Now , if he is not feeling well or if there are kids around and he just wants peace and quiet , he will go in his crate on his own. It's a safe haven for him.

[shandoggy1]

Originally Posted by Shazz

I have been researching crate training on the net, and they do not recommend it for puppies as young as mine, as they can not hold their bladder for long periods on time anyway.

What experience have you had with pups so young?

Isn't your pup 8 weeks old? I have always crated at 8 weeks. I wouldn't do it any other way. I'm not going to be up all night while my pup is who knows where pooing and peeing on my floors. I never heard of a dog being to young to crate train. The purpose of crate training is that a dog won't want to go to the bathroom where it sleeps. My pups have always crate trained well and my new pup who is 7 months has been sleeping in his crate since I brought him home at 8 weeks with not one accident ever in it. Worked like a charm and he loves his crate.

[Shadowkins]

No problem crating my boy either...he was six weeks old when i brought him home!

[Odetoadream]

Your pup can't hold it all night, so you'll still need to get up several times during the night to let him/her out to do thier business. But it is a godsend when you need to sleep or cannot watch the puppy, you'll know he's safe. So long as you can watch the pup, he/she should be with you. A crate is a tool, the dog shouldn't be in it 24/7. Mine loves his crate, tho now that he's older we are trusting him alone in the house roaming free. But even then he'll still go lay in his crate, it's his 'bedroom'. He knows when he's in the crate noone will bother him.

Good luck!
Cinthia

[IceyBlueSibes]

Originally Posted by Shazz

I have been researching crate training on the net, and they do not recommend it for puppies as young as mine, as they can not hold their bladder for long periods on time anyway.

What experience have you had with pups so young?

A puppy is never too young to crate train. A crate is not used to keep the puppy in all night... it is a tool to keep the puppy from wandering and peeing whenever he/she pleases. If it were me, during the night I would get up about every hour and a half- 2 hours to let the pup out. They say to take their age in months, and turn it into hours. So your pup is 8 weeks, so approx. 2 hours max is about how long the pup should be able to hold it (not true for all puppies of course though.. some can't hold it very long at all). The puppy should be taken out after he/she eats, sleeps, plays, drinks, etc. Keep the puppy on a schedule. Look for signs while the pup is out during the day that he/she has to go. Sniffing the ground, pacing, etc. When you see this, take the pup outside and place her in the grass and give her a command as stated before.

All 3 of my dogs (4 at one point) will go potty on command. Especially my rottie I used to have. Once I told her to go potty, she would go pee.. and if I knew she had not gone poopoo, I told her go potty a 2nd time, and she would go poo poo.

But a puppy is never too young to crate train.

And no, if she is being naughty for nipping or gets into trouble... don't scold her and then place her in the crate because like said... she may associate the crate as a bad place. My dogs would go into their crates when they got into trouble anyways because this was their "safe place".

I can still find a good article for you to read if you are not satisfied with ones you have found. One of the members, Shalva, had written an excellent thread on crate/potty training for puppies. I'll ask her for permission to give you the link or copy the article if you would like.

Some people will tell you crate training is cruel... but it's not. Trust me. It makes things SOOOO much easier! But, it is your choice on how to raise your puppy, so if you choose not to use one then that is fine... we're just pointing you in a much easier direction

[Shazz]

The article you mention would be appreciated, thankyou

[IceyBlueSibes]

Alright. I will get back to you!

[Spiritus]

It's actually an hour per month plus one. So for an 8 week old puppy, he should be able to stay crated for up to three hours.

Crate training not only makes sure the puppy isn't pooping or peeing in undesirable places, it also keeps puppy out of trouble. You'd be amazed at how "good" electrical cords can taste, or how fast a puppy can demolish a pile of shoes. The only way to ensure that a puppy is not doing things it should not do, particularly when you are sleeping or otherwise unable to watch it, is to have a way to confine the puppy.

I have five dogs in the house. Three sleep crated, the other two loose. Of the three that sleep crated, all three of them will follow me into the kitchen at bedtime, see me grab the cookies, and then make a bee-line to their crates. The crated dogs are 1 yr, 18 months, and 20 months. All are high drive dogs and like to get into trouble at night... picture three herding dogs playing with three cats at 2am. Sigh. The older two Belgians are much too dignified to resort to chasing a cat in the house, or chewing shoe, or anything else for that matter, but, if I tell them to "go to bed", they will enter the nearest crate willingly.

Charlotte
Spiritus Reg'd Belgians

[Carrie]

Here's a method which, if practiced consistantly, will get your pup trained. You've already gotten some great ideas. There is one little thing which I do not agree with and that's telling the dog, "no" or otherwise scolding your pup. That can make a pup afraid to go to the bathroom at all. He may not understand that you mean not to go in the house, but rather, that going potty is a no no. It can make a pup hide where he goes to the bathroom behind or under furniture and all the while, you're missing good training opportunities. If you prevent accidents and praise heavily for the behavior you want, your pup will learn as he matures and is able to control his bladder and bowels better and as he comes to understand that inside is not the place to go. He doesn't understand that for a while yet. If he makes an accident, it is not his fault.

It's all about supervision, a strict routine, consistency and lots of praise.

You get yourself a crate, a piece of paper and a pen.

Anytime anything goes into your dog (food, water, treats) you note down the time, and anytime something "comes out" (regardless if it is an accident or in a "proper" place), you write down the time too.

When you bring your pup home, make it a point to take it outside every hour on the hour, and additionally each time after (a) a meal, (b) a play session and (c) a nap. each time on the way out, you give the same cue: "do you have to go outside?" or "need to go potty?" etc.

You make sure to keep the same routine every single day, from waking up in the morning, to each meal, nap times and potty breaks. The more disciplined you can be with this, the faster you will be successful. Don't let up and don't skip a potty trip, even if it might be without results. Do not play during potty trips, but remind the pup what the task at hand is - "get busy" or "go pee/poop" are good cues for example. Bring along a very high-value treat, but keep it out of sight until the pup has finished. Praise enthusiastically after the "business" is finished, and give a treat. Don't do this while the pup is still peeing or pooping, or you might distract it.

After keeping notes for a few days, you will clearly see your puppy's schedule and slowly be able to eliminate some of the "extra" potty trips at times where you see they are unsuccessful.

While inside, always supervise your puppy. If you must, put a leash on and tie it to a belt loop of your pants. Make it a rule that indoors your puppy is either under close supervision, or in its crate... no exceptions, ever - until you know your pup is reliably doing business outside. Even if you have to go to the bathroom and don't take the pup with you, pop it in the crate for the 5 minutes you can't supervise. Get a phone call that you know will take your attention away from the pup for a while - "hi, can you hold on for a sec?" and in the crate it goes.

The fewer accidents you let happen (yup, it's all on your head, little puppies don't do wrong, they just don't know better! ), the faster your dog will be reliable indoors.

I highly recommend to crate train, even if you plan on letting the dog sleep on your bed (or some other designated spot) later on. Being familiar with spending time in a crate and behaving properly is one of the best things you can teach a dog, especially if you plan on taking him/her lots of places, get involved in dog sports and so on.

Here's something else...a good way to get your pup use to a crate:
http://www.globalpaw.com/showthread....662#post103662

[Shazz]

Thanks for the info, I will try your suggestions

[linnie]

My girls were never crate trained but they were put into a confined area at night so I suppose thats similar and I did the No NO of using paper to train them. Worked for me lol.
Also always took them out regularly and used the same door everytime for toilet. They knew when they went out that door it was to go to toilet lol

Isnt owning a puppy wonderful
my girls sleep freely in our bedroom now and no problems

[Shalva]

I am posting two articles with regards to housebreaking and crate training..... keep in mind that these articles are written for my breed so replace retriever with your breed. Also keep in mind that I dont know what breed you have but small breeds are notoriously hard to housebreak for an assortment of reasons but this will get you started. the first article is on crate training and is the one that I give to my puppy people when they leave with their new baby.... the second article is on housebreaking and goes hand in hand..... hope this helps.



Crate Training

Every puppy needs to learn to Relax in a crate. This is important to a puppy’s future. It makes stays at the vet much easier, whenever they have to be confined for medical reasons. It is also necessary for traveling or if you need to board your dog away from home. It’s important during the destructive chewing stage that is likely when your pup hits several months of age. This stage can last until age 2 or so and with flat coats, until they are much older. Another critical time where a crate is needed is during any transitions, and times when you cannot watch your puppy every second. So it’s very important that your new puppy learns to relax in their crate.

When a puppy is trained and reliable in the house which can take quite a long time with a flat coat puppy, the crate may be used while you are away to keep your house intact and your puppy safe. Regardless of whether you choose to continue using your crate throughout your puppy’s life or not, it is very important that they are used to their crates.

Usually it works best if you crate your puppy in your bedroom, and yes, close to the bed is fine. In the bed is not, not for the puppy that is going to go through so much transition as it rapidly matures over the next year. If you want your dog to share your bed, wait until after puberty to try that. Make sure that the crate is far enough from the bed that you don’t wake up in the middle of the night to find that your puppy has pulled and is eating all of your blankets inside the crate. It is amazing what a puppy can manage to pull through those bars. I should add that you don’t have to put your puppy in your bedroom. None of my dogs as puppies were in the bedroom, they were downstairs where the noise was muffled just a little, and where when they needed to go out, they had ready access to a door.

Crate training is also a great way to housebreak your puppy. Dogs do not like to soil where they sleep. Puppies are exactly the same and most puppies do not wish to soil their sleeping area. This makes crate training an excellent tool to teach the puppy that they can hold it and that they need to go outside to potty.

The first thing that you want to do is make sure your crate is sized properly. I buy crates that will accommodate my dog as an adult. I want my adult dogs to be able to relax and stretch out in their crates. However, an adult sized crate is way too big for your average puppy. There are many ways to make a crate smaller. I have packed the back of my crates with cardboard boxes…. As the puppy grows I remove some of the boxes. Newer crates come with dividers that can be moved allowing the puppy more room as he/she grows. In a nutshell, you want your puppy to have enough room to sit, stand and lie down, that’s it. You don’t want your puppy to have room to pee on one side of the crate and then move to the other side of the crate to sleep. This is a studio apartment we are talking about here, not a condo.

Now your puppy is not going to be pleased that you have infringed upon his autonomy and his god given right to run throughout your home and pee upon the furniture. It is highly likely that he/she will pitch a fit in the crate. You will want to go and cuddle him and console him and assure him that you will never again put him in that nasty “cage”. OK, two things, get over the “cage” issue. A crate is not a “cage” it is your puppy’s space, his very own space. This means that nobody is allowed in your puppy’s crate except your puppy. This also means kids are not allowed in the crate, as much as you might like to crate them at times, get them their own crate. Second, turn around and walk away. Do not, and I repeat Do not succumb to the screaming. You can do this! You are the human, and you have the power to ignore a pitiful wailing puppy.

The worst thing that people do when they crate train is let the puppy holler and scream for a long period of time and then when they are on their very last nerve, they let the puppy out, simply because they just can’t stand it anymore. STOP, don’t do it! You will teach your puppy that persistence pays off. He will learn “gee, if I scream for a long time she lets me out…. Sweet!”. If you are sure that your puppy doesn’t need to go out (i.e. He pottied five minutes prior to being put in the crate) then let him/her yell. When he is quiet for more than a second because he is taking a breath, then you can let him out. Your puppy will rapidly learn that he can come out of his crate ONLY when he is quiet.

I find that night time is a little harder. My two flat-coats created quite a stink in their crates for about the first two weeks that they were home. They screamed, they cried, they body slammed the crate, and it was hard to tell at midnight and at 1am and 2 am and 2:15 am and 2:30 am (you get the idea), if they had to go potty. I would get up periodically and let them out and they thought it was wonderful to be outside chasing lightning bugs at 2 in the morning. I was not quite as pleased. You have to use your judgment. A puppy IS going to have to go out during the night, that is a fact of life. You have to use your judgment about the need to take them out during the night. I generally pick up all food AND water at 7 pm. They go out to potty at around 9 before I go to bed. I can be pretty sure that the puppy is ok for at least 45 minutes. If they are still screaming and I start thinking “hmm I wonder if they have to go out?” I take the puppy out, ON A LEASH. I don’t care if the yard is fenced, I don’t care if it is safe. It is not playtime, this is potty time. If the puppy does not “go” within say ten minutes. Back into the house and crate he goes. You can only hope that at some point your puppy will cry themselves to sleep. The key is that as badly as you want them to be quiet, no matter if you have a meeting at 8 the next morning, let them yell. Don’t yell back, don’t coddle them.

There are people who feel that if you are home your puppy should be out with you. I don’t entirely agree with this. Your crate should not be overused of course, but there are times when it is impossible to watch your puppy every second. If it is one of those times, then the puppy needs to be in his crate. I can also say that after a week of my flat coats pitching a fit every night in the crate, I started crating them more during the day. They needed to start getting used to the crate, and I needed to get some sleep. The more they were crated during the day, the faster they got used to their crates and the easier life got.

It can be very difficult crate training a puppy. It is heart wrenching to listen to this baby scream and cry, but it is the best thing that you can do for both you and your puppy. Now I have five dogs, two are 5 years old, one is 4 and one is almost 3 and another is 18 mos. There are 3 crates available and most of the time, the doors to the crates are left open and yes the dogs do go in their crates to relax. I can train one dog and the others can hang out in the crates without being stressed. If they see the nail clippers, the first thing they do is run to their crates; they know I won’t pull them out of there. The crates have become their homes and it works out the best for all of us.

[Shalva]

Housebreaking

Ok so what is the most important thing that needs to be accomplished when your wonderful new puppy comes home? I think that most would agree that the little guy needs to learn that there are just some things that are not done in the house EVER!

The problem is that to a puppy, you are trying to teach them not to do a very natural thing. They don’t understand why up until now they could pee and poop anywhere they wanted and now all of a sudden, they are given “the look” whenever they do this. Puppies don’t understand the difference between your best oriental carpet and the kitchen tile floor. If they are allowed to pee or poop in the house, they will continue to do so. Thus we are headed to housebreaking boot camp.

Crates are a wonderful tool to help you housebreak your puppy. I would strongly suggest that you use one. A crate gives your puppy his own space. The crate becomes his “room”. It has gotten to the point that if Meghan is acting up, I can tell her to go to her “room” and she heads straight for her crate and stands there looking at me until I tell her ok and she can come out. Some of this article is a repeat of the crate training article.

Crate training is also a great way to housebreak your puppy. Dogs do not like to soil where they sleep. Puppies are exactly the same and most puppies do not wish to soil their sleeping area. This makes crate training an excellent tool to teach the puppy that they can hold it and that they need to go outside to potty.

The first thing that you want to do is make sure your crate is sized properly. I buy crates that will accommodate my dog as an adult. I want my adult dogs to be able to relax and stretch out in their crates. However, an adult sized crate is way too big for your average puppy. There are many ways to make a crate smaller. I have packed the back of my crates with cardboard boxes…. As the puppy grows I remove some of the boxes. Newer crates come with dividers that can be moved allowing the puppy more room as he/she grows. In a nutshell, you want your puppy to have enough room to sit, stand and lie down, that’s it. You don’t want your puppy to have room to pee on one side of the crate and then move to the other side of the crate to sleep. This is a studio apartment we are talking about here, not a condo. If your crate is too big you will find that your puppy will have no qualms about peeing in his crate.

The other thing you need to know is that your puppy’s bladder is not fully developed until he/she is approximately five months of age. This means that there is no possible way that your puppy can “hold it” all day while you are at work. That having been said, it is important that you make arrangements for your puppy during the day. Some options might be coming home for lunch to let your puppy out, a pet sitter, or doggie daycare (this is what we did, and it was a great relief to know that my puppy was taken care of during the day and was getting great socialization at the same time). The easiest way to figure the time a puppy can “hold it” is one hour for every month they are old. This means at 8 weeks when your puppy comes home, he/she can only hold it for approximately 2 hours. I WOULD NOT recommend setting your puppy up with a place to potty in the house such as in a kitchen or bathroom or paper training, or wee wee pads or any other such manner. I would teach them right from the start that there are NO acceptable places to pee in the house. Your housebreaking will be much easier if they learn from the start that potties are done OUTSIDE and that’s it. There are a few exceptions to this rule and they have nothing to do with the size of your dog, rather with how many floors up you live and how long it takes to catch the elevator. With a small puppy an accident on the linoleum or a tile floor is not a big deal. I would suggest that you don’t want your 60 lb. flat coat thinking that it’s ok to poop in the kitchen. Those poops are a bit harder to clean up.

One other thing to think about is food and water. I would feed your puppy relatively early in the evening. This gives him/her time to eat and drink and have it go through his/her little system before you go to bed. All water (especially water) should be picked up no later than 7 pm, your puppy will not die of thirst (assuming you are not feeding him/her jalapenos) between then and the next morning. Again, this allows your puppy to go out before you go to bed and not be up all night having to pee. Keep in mind though that at the beginning it is very likely that your puppy is going to have to go potty at least once during the night.

I find that night time is a little harder. My two flat-coats created quite a stink in their crates for about the first two weeks that they were home. They screamed, they cried, they body slammed the crate, and it was hard to tell at midnight and at 1am and 2 am and 2:15 am and 2:30 am (you get the idea), if they had to go potty. I would get up periodically and let them out and they thought it was wonderful to be outside chasing lightning bugs at 2 in the morning. I was not quite as pleased. You have to use your judgment. A puppy IS going to have to go out during the night, that is a fact of life. You have to use your judgment about the need to take them out during the night. I generally pick up all food AND water at 7 pm. They g