puppy play or agression?

[Lilys_mommy]

Hello all!
We've had Emma now for the past 4 days and she's been a great puppy so far. Seems to like her crate, only whines a little (about a minute or two) when she's really not wanting to be in there...hasn't pottied in the house since the first day (but we are making sure she goes out often) but the problem is with the other dog in the house. She's a year this month and she has been great with Emma...but while playing Emma will be nice at first and then she begins to growl and bite Tahoe's leg...ears...you name it she bites it. We try and stop it because we weren't sure if it was aggression or just puppy play but we didn't like that she was growling and biting ...just play biting we were ok with and Tahoe never yelped and continued playing (never biting Emma...) I'm just not sure at what point is still puppy play and what point she is beginning to show signs of aggression. She is still nipping my boyfriend and I which we are trying to stop...no chewing on the fingers either.

My other problem is when we go outside she takes longer to potty now because Tahoe would always come outside wanting to play with her so now she thinks that potty time is playtime as well.

bah.

[oc_spirit]

It sounds like puppy play to me. OC''s 3-years old now and his whole life he has made growly noises during play. Ronan''s 5 years old and does it too. Think of it likes when kids are wrestling and say things like "I''m gonna get you poopyhead!!!" Teens when sparring do it too but use different choice words LOL In a different context it could mean something serious but during play it''s just jokes. If Tahoe were really getting hurt he would yelp causing Emma to stop. If he felt she was getting out of hand he would step up and get serious by giving her a correction nip and a serious growl and if she respects him she would give submissive signals. This can all be done during play too and can be so subtle you don;t even catch it unless you know what to look for. I wouldn''t worry about it and I wouldn''t step in between unless you can tell Tahoe is getting very frusterated and Emma isn''t listening to his corrections. A correction can sound very nasty sometimes because depending on the severity it''s a lot of noise instead of actual biting so don''t get scared and step in between if that''s what Tahoe does. He needs to teach Emma his rules too.

[IceyBlueSibes]

I highly doubt that it is aggression. She's far too young to be showing aggression, IMO, but then again she may... but I doubt it. Growling and biting is typical play for almost any dog (some are quieter). You can teach both of the puppies "Enough!", in order to teach them to settle down and take a break. I really don't know how to explain when it does get "serious" because my dogs often play and they look/sound like they are fighting, but they're really not. I think if Tahoe is okay with her playing that way, it should be fine, but if any of them begin to yelp... play time is over and they both should settle down.

I would suggest only allowing Tahoe out AFTER Emma has pottied. This is another key thing to potty training. NO play time outside until she has done her business! Once she does go, praise her like crazy and then let Tahoe out for some fun.

I hope that makes sense. I can't put my thoughts together that well this morning. LOL

[Cassiepeia]

I agree...it's not aggression.
Let Tahoe decide when he's had enough. He's the only one who will know if she's getting aggressive (apart from Emma herself of course) and he can deal with it just fine. It might even help with the nipping problem if you leave them to it and allow Tahoe to deal with the biting if he finds it excessive.

Cass.

[WolfRyder]

Both the humane society and our vet told us to let the older dog work it out with the younger, making sure no one gets hurt. We've abided by that because Bob is a puppy that has to learn "doggie" manners and Schumi has been showing her the ropes. She knows how far she can push him and he's never bitten her. A few occasions he's gotten on her case really hard because she overstepped (nipped him too hard, jumped on him, etc) but he's only corrected her, not hurt her. She's learned quickly and they're playing well together now.

Even play tug together sometimes, though Bob is hesitant to because when she wins, Schumi gets angry and growl/bark/corrects her. She doesn't understand. I've had to intervene with those because he goes on and on even after she's turned belly up and then run hiding under my legs. That's when the "enough" goes into play.

[Lilys_mommy]

Last night was the first time we heard Tahoe yelp but she kept playing as if Emma never hurt her...and she hasn't bitten to correct Emma yet....although Emma does go belly up at times...and Tahoe will push her over on her back a lot while they are playing.
I just wasn't sure with the growling...

This week Tahoe and her Mommy and Daddy are off to a softball tournament so we will have the house w/out Tahoe so hopefully we can re-inforce that outside is potty time while she's gone.

[Raised By Wolves]

Most dog aggression comes from frustration, and is not something dogs just do out of nowhere. This is not aggression, IMO.

This is just a puppy doing what they do. If you just keep an eye on things and break it up before your older dog disciplines her, you should do fine.

Many older dogs will simply move away or avoid the pup if they already know you will not tolerate any disciplinary behavior from them towards the youngster. But, things change as the puppy gets older and starts to assert themself more.

Let them play, but let the older dog know you will handle things when they go too far...that way, THEY don't have to.

[rmci]

My youngest does the same thing
Baxter is older and is more submissive. He runs to me when he's had enough. I tried staying out of it but that didn't work.

Now I'm working on the "enough" command, which I think I need help with. Baxter gets it and stops, but Rusty only stops for a moment, then he charges Baxter again.

[Lilys_mommy]

how would you begin to train that command? Say enough when both dogs are calm and doing nothing?

[WolfRyder]

I started just saying it, in the same tone of voice as "No". Though I admit I say it a bit louder and with more force, as they're usually barking, running around, etc.

With Schumi and his barking at everything from the window, I'd say it, then go stand in front of the window. If he kept it up, I'd say it again and redirect him to do something else. Didn't take him long to catch on.

Bob is learning from him. I've physically held her, too (at 5 months she has a lot of energy) for a moment to gain her attention. Fortunatly she's pretty distractable right now. Wave a toy in her face and she changes direction

rmci - when Bob just doesn't get it or keeps up after I've told her enough, I've either taken her outside (by herself) to separate the two of them, distracted her with a toy, or put her in her kennel for a few minutes. My husband prefers to calm her down by talking gently with her and stroking her. She just gets over-excited and needs a break to calm down.

[D.Schäferhund]

well it sounds to me like playing, too.
just keep an eye on it, but it should be alreight.
Maybe i should tape you my bunch , when they are going at it, that sounds like they are about to kill something.....LOL

[Cassiepeia]

Maybe i should tape you my bunch , when they are going at it, that sounds like they are about to kill something.....LOL

Yes! Please do. I'd love to hear that.

Cass.