Crate Training / House Training encouragement

[BichonSnoopy]

Our bichon Snoopy is just shy of 8 weeks old. We are trying to housebreak him by crate training him. The breeder had box-trained the litter.

Most nights he only needs to get up once to poop (occasionally a second time to pee). At that time, he's usually also peed in the towel he sleeps on. We just switch out the towel and put him back in the crate.

I'm able to work at home for now, so during the day and on weekends, when he's woken up from a nap, he usually has not peed on the towel. So far (knock wood), he hasn't pooped in his crate.

Question: does this all sound normal for his age, and does it sound like we are doing the right thing?

During the workday (and on weekends), I take him out after he wakes up from every nap. He sometimes responds to "hurry up"; if he does, I praise him, give him a special "potty treat", and play with him.

If he doesn't go, I put him back in the crate. Here's where the "fun" starts. He'll almost always really raise a ruckus. Nothing I do seems to startle him (hitting the floor, coins in empty soda can, etc), no amount of "NO!", growling, eye contact, will seem to quiet him. (Sometimes this happens after he's gone outside properly, as in the above paragraph).

On the one hand, I've heard I should take him out a few minutes later and try again. On the other hand, I've heard I shouldn't give in to his demand to be let out.

Question: How do I resolve this inconsistency?
Question: What other sounds or noises could I try to startle him?

Snoopy is a very dominant dog in some ways, and I can see some long hours ahead trying to teach him what to chew and not chew, not to bite, etc. I've tried many of the exercises in the New Skete book; sometimes I'm successful, sometimes it takes a lot more time.

I'm somewhat paranoid about crate accidents, so I've also created a "safe area" with newspapers over plastic sheeting. This will serve as an area for him to live in once I have to go back to work full time (possibly right after Thanksgiving). Snoopy will only be about 10 weeks old then.

When Snoopy has pooped in the safe area, it's been in the same general area. I created a small box there with the hope he'll go there. Ditto with peeing, but that's been in a different spot. When he goes in the safe area, I just change the paper; no treat, no play.

Question: Is this split between crate training and safe area paper training going to just confuse him?

I guess in addition to concrete suggestions, I could use some plain old encouragement. I'm willing to do what I need to make this work, but I get so discouraged sometimes.

[Carrie]

If you allow your dog to go to the bathroom in the house, whether it's on paper, in a box, in a special spot....it doesn't matter. That can be very confusing and is giving permission to go in the house. I know some people have been successful in using a litter box. But my personal preferrence is to take the pup outside often and that's the only place he can go. I don't worry about catering. I get that dog to pee outside, not inside. I like using a crate when they can't be watched, but they shouldn't be locked up for very long.

That and all puppy behavior will take time. Your pup barely feels it coming on yet. It can take several months. So hang in there. It sounds like you're doing a great job.

If he doesn't go, I put him back in the crate. Here's where the "fun" starts. He'll almost always really raise a ruckus. Nothing I do seems to startle him (hitting the floor, coins in empty soda can, etc), no amount of "NO!", growling, eye contact, will seem to quiet him. (Sometimes this happens after he's gone outside properly, as in the above paragraph).

I wouldn't want to frighten or startle my young pup with loud noises. That is not a good idea. No wonder he's raising a ruckus. You're probably freaking him out. This happens after he's gone potty outside properly? So, in other words, he's getting the s**t scared out of him every time he goes outside to go pee? He's a tiny infant. Of course he doesn't like going in the crate and missing out on the fun and cuddling. He needs calm, quiet, gentle care. Sometimes a few calming words, not to the point of sounding like you're rewarding him, but a couple of words of calm from you, "go to bed" is enough. Then just ignore the yelping if you're sure all his needs have been met. If you have his crate in the same room as you, that helps ease his craving to be with his pack. And at the same time, he can learn to spend some of his time alone. He can learn gradually.

If he doesn't go outside, bring him in and watch him for a while instead of sticking him right away into the crate. He may be thinking he's being punished. Just watch for signs of having to go, like circling around, sniffing, looking behind furniture. Some of these signs he won't start quite yet probably because he is so young, he barely has any advanced notice of a feeling of having to go. If he looks like he's about to go, just scoop him up and take him out.

Anyhow, if he does go outside, I wouldn't immediately put him in his crate. He just did a wonderful thing. He should get to have some fun and some lovin' for a while. LOL. When you do need to put him in his crate, give him a little tiny treat and give a command. I use "go to bed" and always give a treat and some chew toys. Never use it as a punishment. That all helps them learn to like their crates all right.

Congrats on your new beautiful pup. They are so pretty, but I've heard hard to housetrain.

Welcome to the forum.

[BichonSnoopy]

Hi Carrie,

Thanks for the welcome and support.

Originally Posted by Carrie

You're probably freaking him out. This happens after he's gone potty outside properly? So, in other words, he's getting the s**t scared out of him every time he goes outside to go pee? ... Anyhow, if he does go outside, I wouldn't immediately put him in his crate. He just did a wonderful thing. He should get to have some fun and some lovin' for a while.

No, if he goes outside, he gets a treat and play time in the house (15-20 minutes). Then he gets a bit of kibble inside the crate. Hmm, I just had a thought -- maybe I should take him outside after the play and before putting him back in? I've put him in the safe area instead of the crate and gotten a few accidents.

Originally Posted by Carrie

Then just ignore the yelping if you're sure all his needs have been met. If you have his crate in the same room as you, that helps ease his craving to be with his pack. And at the same time, he can learn to spend some of his time alone.

Yes, when I'm working at home, the crate is in the same room as me, but behind me (and I use a tiny mirror to check on him).

Originally Posted by Carrie

If he doesn't go outside, bring him in and watch him for a while instead of sticking him right away into the crate. He may be thinking he's being punished. Just watch for signs of having to go, like circling around, sniffing, looking behind furniture.

How long would you suggest? After this, then try putting him back in?

[Carrie]

No, if he goes outside, he gets a treat and play time in the house (15-20 minutes). Then he gets a bit of kibble inside the crate. Hmm, I just had a thought -- maybe I should take him outside after the play and before putting him back in? I've put him in the safe area instead of the crate and gotten a few accidents

.

I think the kibble is a fine idea when he goes in the crate. I wouldn't stew over the timing too much. I just meant that it would be nice to relax him a little first and so it's not such a let down...going from being outside or romping around out there in the fresh air where it's fun and then whamo...locked up right away. Bring him in and hold him on your lap for a few minutes or rub his tummy. Do something to transition him a little.....for 5 or 10 minutes and then ask him to "go to bed" or whatever command you want to use.

I don't know if you have kids or not, but when my kids were little and would be having a marvelous time doing something....outside playing a fantastic game or something, I wouldn't just say, "ok...it's time to come in and go to bed." A-r-g-g-g...what an awful prospect! I'd say it was time to come in and brush teeth and quiet down a little. They could have a story or do something quiet for 1/2 hour or so and then time for bed. It's probably kind of the same for puppies. They're having fun one minute and the next they get locked up away from their person? A-w-w-w.....not fair. LOL.

Yeah...they will tend to not go in their crate because it is small and it's like their little den and they don't like to mess up where they sleep normally. That's why the crate is a good training tool but should not be used excessively in lieu of being nurtured by you.

My most recent pup is a Doberman and he was a pain...took a long time to get house broken and never squatted or gave me any sign that he was about to pee. He'd just stop walking across the living room and a-h-h-h-h....he'd go! Ar-r-g-g. They're all so different. I've had a dogs for about 40 years and this guy is the slowest to mature, true to reputation.

I know that pups are a LOT of work and take so much of our time. They're like having a little toddler around that can walk and get into things. You can hardly go in the bathroom yourself or do any cleaning chores without bringing them around with you and watching them all the time. I don't like using the crate anymore than I must...a few times a during the day when I positively couldn't watch the dog....was taking a shower or had to leave for a while. I often ended up taking the dog with me.

So, why do you want to put him in the crate after taking him out to pee? Is it that you can't watch him? Well, if you have to, I'd just do something with him for about 15 -20 minutes and try again to get him to go if it's been a while and you think he may have to. I remember with Lyric...taking him out very often....every 1/2 hour to an hour. It was crazy. But as he got a little older it got more spaced out. LOL. A real pain at first.

Sorry....this is probably not much help. But I guess I'm kind of confused about this crate thing. While you're home, is your dog in the crate most of the time? I don't think that's very emotionally good for the dog. Maybe I'm not reading this right and misunderstanding. But I guess I could explain how life was with my latest pup. It was like having a toddler who can run, chew things up, get into dangerous things.....It was putting aside all kinds of things I was use to doing and devoting the majority of my time to this pup. I used the crate for his sleeping place at night or when I was gone for a couple of hours and couldn't take him. I didn't like that. But I don't think a pup should be in there or all alone for more than 2 - 4 hours. I used the crate when I took a shower and couldn't watch him. I brought him around into the different rooms where I might be making beds and cleaning. He'd be biting at the sheets or grabbing the feather duster. I was laughing but at the same time a little frusterated at having to be slowed down in my work. I'd have to take him outside every 1/2 hour or 45 minutes. Then back to whatever it was I was doing. I only used the crate for nap time when he was tired from a romp or walk and when I really needed to have a little nap myself or when I just couldn't watch him. The dog was most of the time with me. This phased out little by little. He finally got reliable on the potty training at about 8 months of age....kind of a late bloomer. He continues to occasionally get into something....not as much lately. He's getting there though....LOL...at 15 months.

[BichonSnoopy]

Your idea of a "gradual cool down" after playing sounds good, I'll give that a try.

Snoopy spends time either in the crate or the newspapered area when I need to do some work and can't keep my eye on him 100%. He also is in the crate if I need to put him in the car for short rides nearby.

Fortunately, during the day he still sleeps in long enough stretches that I can get some work done. If I could have taken vacation time, I would have.

All the crate training resources I've seen seem to say that the puppy should spend his unsupervised time (definitely not ALL) in the crate. Obviously you don't want that to be too much time.

Anyway, I appreciate your insights. It's always good to be able to have a dialog than to just read a book or web site.

[Carrie]

All the crate training resources I've seen seem to say that the puppy should spend his unsupervised time (definitely not ALL) in the crate. Obviously you don't want that to be too much time.

Oh, definitely. If you can't be watching them, they may pee on the carpet or chew up an electrical cord or chew your couch to smitherines. LOL. Yup....they need constant supervision or else be in a crate or some safe place. But my point was that I don't like to have a baby shut away too much from their people. Nap time is a great time to put them there and get some chores done or whatever.