New puppy, big mistake?

[BusyStephie]

I cannot remember having a "puppy", I know I have had them, but most of my dogs were older adoptions. The last true puppy was over 20 yrs ago. So I may just be in some state of new puppy panic/buyer's remorse or something like that.

How I got myself into this:

When my daughter, Reagan, was born 3.5 yrs ago we had 2 dogs. Brandi, my Springer Spaniel, the sweetest ready to please little thing in the world and Amber the red headed step child, she earned that name. Brandi was 13 yo with spine problems and we had her put to sleep shortly after Reagan was born because she could no longer walk. So basically it has just been Amber around, she is a GSD/Malamutt mix, pound rescue. Very independent. I call her a cat, basically she had no use for us when we got her, didn't even want attention. She is my husband's dog, adores my brother, basically a guys dog until a thunder storm at which point i become her savior, she must be with me when it storms.
We had no hopes or dreams of Amber making nice with Reagan at any point. We just maintain a mutual respect and distance. Reagan loves Amber, loves my in laws dogs, loves pictures of them, stuffed dogs and on and on and she has been living with a dog she can't even touch.
So, she is heading to 4 and since she is so good with dealing with the untouchable dog I figure it is time that we start looking for her one.
Well, while we are looking she is waking up at night crying for a dog... I want to take my time, thinking a lab mix would be perfect for us temperment and grooming wise (no more stinky spaniel ears to clean). I keep missing them at the pound, they get scooped up or they are too old or they are boys (I don't need that arguement, just not my preference after dog sitting a "house trained" one that peed on everything in my house. OH and some bright person tried to tell me that if they are neutered they don't do that, I almost laughed in her face). So I am getting a little rushed on the looking and aggravated because all the dogs want to do is sniff where the other dogs have been, they barely notice the little girl that wants their attention so it was really hard to see if there was going to be a spark there.
The pound got in a litter of 8 GSD mix puppies. There were 4 girls and we lucked into getting one of the last 2 left. She seemed to want to follow Reagan around and a little playful but not so much as to try to tackle her. So I paid $150+ to bring this puppy home. Had to wait for her to get spayed, picked her up 5 days later and she has coccidia... wonderful, a crate training puppy with the runs... Only lasts so long, i can handle it and keeping her away from Amber is easy because Amber doesn't want anything to do with anyone usually.
Trying to tell my daughter not to carry around the 5 pound puppy that has just had surgery is another matter.
So we have made it thru almost 2 weeks and they still can't figure out how to play with each other. Tresa is 2 months old and anything that i do to get Tresa to play with me she won't play with my daughter doing. So they just can't seem to entertain each other at all...
I think back to my dog at her age and i had a peekapoo that let me dress her up and have pictures of me using her as a pillow. I know i had to just be a pure terror to this dog but she was always with me.
My husband and i are both trying not to let this puppy bond with us, we are trying to show Reagan how to do most things for her and letting her do them while we watch. We don't seem to be getting anywhere, the puppy is running from her, doesn't play with her but will play with me...
I have to take this puppy to the vet by Thursday which is 2 weeks after we got her and I am worried that it is just going to be wasting more money on a dog that is never going to bond with my daughter, i have fears of having a mini Amber. I have 30 days to return her to the pound for my money back but that brings another set of problems. It is one thing to have a dog that doesn't play with you, it is another to have to part with the dog that doesn't play with you.
And to top it all off i have PMDD for the past couple days and it will be around for a few more days so i am super worried and upset about it all. I just feel like I have made the biggest mistake with this puppy. I should have taken my time but after looking at so many puppies/dogs and at so many places i just figured that seeing a spark between her and a puppy was just wishful thinking on my part and that a bond would build but i am not seeing that either.

I feel like that was just some emo outburst of blah but i don't have time to try to fix it now, i will have some time tonight.
I have attached pictures of all the girls. Maybe you will see another breed in Tresa because I know the ppl at the pound are not all knowing, they had some sort of setter labeled as a springer spaniel once and it was not a "mixed" setter, she looked like a pure. Tresa is 2 months old and weighs 5 pounds, i am even worried that she isn't going to get bigger.
Someone save me from myself.

(what it feels like when i talk to my husband)

[Shmee]

Steph,
Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater hun. You've got a bunch of issues and i'm going to make an attempt at aleving some pressure here, but no guarantees.

You have a very adorable daughter there and you shouldn't put so much pressure on the very adorable puppy to bond with the very adorable daughter . The 2 of them are are very little. At 4yrs old, most kids dont really have the patience to teach a dog to do something, let alone play a game that another child is designed for. At that age, I think most kids look at animals as objects, and not living things with minds of their own. Puppy simply isn't going to want to be put in tea party's and doll clothes like a stuffed animal. I would imagine most kids would lose patience after a shorttime and move onto something else. I know your daughter is little and she's probably taking the puppy's lack of interest in things as hurtful to her. This of course is not the case.
Once your puppy has had all her shots and is free from any illness, I would register for the nearest puppy kindergarten class and expose both your dog and your daughter to some obediance training. Involve your daughter with the dogs training and you will see a bond form. She will learn to understand things from the dogs point of view. I think all involved would benefit from it as this would aleviate lots of tension between puppy and daughter. I would discourage your daughter from playing dressup if it disturbs the dog. If the dog doesn't care, then that's ok, but anything negative that happens, scaring, jolting, dropping, well, that's going to leave a serious impression on the dog and when that occurs, the dog will then run to you. So, if you can get your daughter doing things the dog likes, and the dog is happy, the dog will be more willing to do things your daughter wants. The bond has to made with the dog, and then the bond will be made with your daughter. There's really no other way that I see this happening. If you promote the idea like, "We're going to take Sasha to kindergarten hunny, would you like to help teach her???" If this kid says, "no" i'll eat my keyboard.

I hope that lifted some weight off your chest,

-Shmee

P.S. Welcome to boards!!!!

[Punkygirl0101]

i agree completely with the above. A 4 year old is a bit young to actually be able to take care of this dog by herself, and even with little help from her parents! YOU as the primary caregivers to the dog NEED to bond with her. Don't :

My husband and i are both trying not to let this puppy bond with us, we are trying to show Reagan how to do most things for her and letting her do them while we watch. We don't seem to be getting anywhere, the puppy is running from her, doesn't play with her but will play with me...

LET her bond with you. You are the adults in the house, and you are the one who will be training this puppy and doing most of its care. She NEEDS to bond with you! No matter how much you would like her to be your daughter's dog..She will be yours, because your daughter is at a very young age..and its not the age to actually start taking care of a dog.

My mother always had dogs before I was born, and when I was a baby. We got My "First" dog when I was 7 years old...and even though I did consider him my dog I suppose...He was really my mothers. She was his primary caregiver...I really didn't do much but play with him when I wanted to. We still have him, and hes 12 now and NOW hes MY dog. I do everything for him, I walk him, I feed him, I bathe him, I train him...and I started actually being the dogs primary caregiver when I was about 12..thats when I really started getting into being responsible for another life. When i four...I LOVED dogs..and if my mother would have tried to not allow any of our dogs to bond with her, we would have some really aggressive, unsocialized dogs.

So please take your new puppy to puppy kindergarten as mentioned above..And once shes through with all her vaccinations start socializing her everywhere you go, with different people, animals, sounds, etc.

[Cassiepeia]

In short...yes I think you made a mistake. 4yrs old is way too young to have a dog. If you and your husband wanted another dog for yourselves (and therefore the family), then fine. But to get one for your daughter is a little crazy.
I do agree with the above posts. If you want to keep the pup enroll in puppy classes immediately, take an interest in the puppy and bond with her. You are her owner, not your daughter.
The puppy will be very unsure of herself right now. She's been ripped away from her mother and litter mates and taken out of a cold shelter into a home with complete strangers (after having a major operation) and is stuck being forced to 'bond' with a playful 4yr old.
No matter how nice your daughter is, to your puppy she will look like a HUGE terrifying creature.

If you really don't feel like you want the puppy for yourselves, honestly I'd recommend taking it back to the shelter and letting it find a good home with someone else. Leave getting another dog until your daughter is about 8 or 9 (at which stage you will still need to get the dog for you and your husband not just your daughter).

If you decide to keep her, put the work in, bond with her and she'll reward you and your daughter with the most amazing love. She won't be another Amber. Make sure she's trained, very well socialised and comfortable, confident and happy, and she'll love your daughter as much as you do. It just takes a lot of time. Right now she's a teeny tiny baby with less understanding of the world than your daughter.

By the way, she's a GORGEOUS puppy!

Cass.

[BusyStephie]

Thank you Shmee! That little girl was 4 yrs of planning and work and she was worth every bit of it.

I can't take credit for the cuteness of the puppy thank you!

It was me that dressed my puppy up but I don't remember attending tea parties. Reagan has no interest in such things and I would have to put a stop to that if it got to that point. She doesn't get hurt about things either. I am telling you, it is probably just overly concerned, worried, paranoid me... Any normal semi experienced dog owning person would see nothing wrong and I am seeing the end of the world. I don't handle change well. I freaked after I brought home Amber too. Of course, she chewed the lids off of 13 small bottles of water, 3 gallon bottles of water, a Sam's club size jar of peanut butter and carried a gallon bottle of olive oil into the living room and chewed the lid off of it on my carpet. Yea, she earned the nickname of red headed step child. And i learned how to get olive oil out of carpet without leaving a stain. We joked about returning her within the 30 days, that didn't involve my daughter at the time so I wasn't near as worried.

For the most part Reagan is all about dogs... petting them, cuddling with them, being chased by them and just being one. And Shmee, you don't have to eat your keyboard, she is all gung ho about dog training. They were having class at the pet store while we were there one day and she was determined that they let her in to train a dog before she even had one. I figured that 2 months is too young for the puppy. The shelter we adopted her from has lifetime training but I think they said 6 months. I am used to Springers and you might as well keep them home for 9 months to a year, they are puppies for up to 2 yrs. I attended training with my first springer when she was 6 months, it was a learning experience for us both but when she got to 2yrs she figured it all out without any additional training, it just clicked.

I know that my husband and I are primary but Reagan has already been put in "charge" of doggy chores with our current dog so she knows how to feed and water and let out and things like that. I am not making her clean up poo and pee, cage train, drive her to the vet or things like that. Actually, that just made me think that maybe I am disappointed in my husbands part in this... he just steps over pee spots. New things for her are the playing because Amber will have nothing to do with playing. Her and Tresa are supervised but it is just not going at all well. I know my mom in no way watched and coached me with my dog at that age, both of my parents worked, my dad 11 hrs a day, 7 days a week and my mom is not big on animals period. Hence why there are pictures of Tinkie with her ears in pony tails with a shawl and sun glasses on. No, I will not show that picture to Reagan, I don't want her to get any ideas.

This was a family decision that we knew was coming. I am just in panic mode because of PMDD and more investment at a point that I am feeling so uneasy about the decision. And then there are always thoughts of Amber. I love her and she really is neat and different but I am scared out of my mind that I am going to have 2 dogs and have to worry about both of them biting even me let alone Reagan. Other than the time before we adopted Amber (she was just over 6 months) she has been socialized and trained and has changed some, she really loves attention now but it is on her terms, when she wants it and who she wants it from. (She is a cat trapped in a dog's body... )

I think it would be a load off my shoulders if they would just learn to play together. I just feel like a big control freak trying to train both of them to play. Maybe a new approach will help. I am thinking that me playing "doggy" with a stuffed animal while Reagan tries to play with me will be more fun for her than me always correcting her. I can hear the giggles now. New forum suggestion, doggy role playing with your future dog owner... If I had any idea how hard it would be to teach a kid and a dog to play together I would have started this type of play sooner.
She has always been around dogs and I have always worked on teaching her how to be around them, how to approach them, to ask ppl if she can pet their dogs and all the special instructions that come with living with Amber. I just never thought play could be so much work. Reagan does the feeding and watering and wants to do the walking and training and cleaning up, they just aren't making friends like I thought. Throw that idea out with the "spark" thoughts but I am still not letting my husband curl up on the couch and sleep with Tresa, that is what I mean by bonding. I guess I mean that Reagan is the only one that can SPOIL her by little bits. She gives treats and is the person that lets Tresa in the bed and on the couch. We pull Tresa out from under things when needed, do the caging and try to get Reagan to not pick her up, go to her level and such.

I also think that a dog that is too big to be carried would have been a good thought too but this girl was caught carrying 2 liter bottles when she was learning to walk. Probably a good thing Amber grrrs at her or she would try to pick up the 100 pound dog.

Like I said, it is probably just me. I was searching for ideas to get them to come together a bit and some things we could try for playing and found the forum and had a typing puke before heading out to preschool swimming class. I can't talk to my husband, he is no help, my in laws have disrespectful, untrained dogs, but act like they know about dogs (they just like them to be rude), and my friends don't have dogs or don't have dogs and little kids, their kids are all in high school or older.

Time should work things out but I am feeling pressure about the 2 week appt and the 30 day return. I am just freaked. I want her to have the perfect dog, not a problem. I wish I could bring back 2 of mine to share with her even if it meant dealing with stinky spaniel ears again.

Gotta go let the little girls out for potty and play before bedtime. Tired girls don't yelp so much at night.
Thanks and I will let you know how my play role playing idea goes!

[tiddlypup]

just go with the flow,dont try to force the issue,let your daughter help with the feeding,in time you will have a very loyal and loving companion for the whole family,both puppy and daughter have got a very short attention span and the pup will want to sleep a lot but they grow quickly and it will want to play with anyone who wants a game
saz x

[BusyStephie]

Actually, playing last night went quite well. Tresa chased Reagan and since Reagan loves to be chasee and chaser this will be great fun for them. Just need to find a nice streaming squirt bottle to stop the nipping. I would get the squirt gun but the sight of it still sends Amber cowering. We rarely used it on her but I think just the noise of the water rushing thru it sent her into a panic.
Tresa even gave the red headed step child a run for her doggie treats. They have not been together much because of the coccidia and worms and all Amber managed to do is grr and her and run away grr'ing. But last night they had a nice game of puppy sneak a nip and Amber played along.
Of course, I still didn't get sleep, between one whining about being lonely and the other whining about something to eat and drink in the middle of the night that is another part of functioning that has taken a back seat and not helped a bit with figuring things out.
This morning when Tresa chased and nipped at Reagan I think Amber even tried to correct her about the nipping.
I didn't realize how much I missed watching doggie talk.
Maybe Amber will manage to lose some weight in all of this.

[Shmee]

Ok let's REALLY break it on down here............

Her and Tresa are supervised but it is just not going at all well. I know my mom in no way watched and coached me with my dog at that age, both of my parents worked, my dad 11 hrs a day, 7 days a week and my mom is not big on animals period

So you know what was done wrong, you're correcting it. *Pats steph on Back*
If it's not going well Steph, you have to make a decision for the benefit of the puppy if noone else. You're going to have to step in and correct wrongs when you see them occur. In my opinion.. (harsh truth INCOMING) Your daughter at 4 should NOT be left unsupervised with that puppy under any circumstance. Period. No if's, and's or But's. She's too young hun. When she's able to demonstrate to you that she can care for this animal in a responsible way, give her some leeway with the dog. Until then, picking puppy up and possibly having an accident where not only the dog could get hurt, but your daughter as well, isn't going to make conditions anymore adequate for the dog.
Bottom line is you dont want that dog to fear your daughter right? Taking it to another level, as the puppy ages, if things aren't corrected, puppy might let your daughter know EXACTLY what she's doing wrong and nip or bite a hand in fear or aggression.
Forcing them together will ultimately force them apart is all im trying to say.

Next issue:

This was a family decision that we knew was coming. I am just in panic mode because of PMDD.......

WTH is PMDD?

And finally:
If your husband doesn't want to helpout with rearing the dogs, then tell him to spend time with his daughter and supervise Reagan while she plays with the puppy. Will he object to that? That should solve 2 problems at once. If he does infact object, might be time for him to reevaluate his priorty agenda.


Abe Lincoln said it best, "And this too shall pass..."

Best of luck,

-Shmee

[BusyStephie]

Yea, my mom may have been wrong but you are talking about the 70s and yet I had a wonderful relationship with my puppy at Reagan's age. So lets just face that some kids are different just like some dogs are different and get over my daughter's age. You could have a 10 yr old that would be a heck of a lot worse than my 4 yr old. Age is relative just like breed dispositions are. I was looking for ideas of things to do as I should in this position and I am tired of it being about my daughter's age when you can't tell what kind of kid she is but if I had said she was 10 it wouldn't have been an issue but could have been the biggest unknown issue.

PMDD is PMS on steriods. One week every month there is something that just breaks me down. Even knowing that it is going to happen every month does nothing to stop it and no meds have worked either. I am debating drastic measures because it has gotten worse since having my daughter and I can be a personal wreck for almost a week every month and explain it to an adult but I can't explain it to her.

So you all can continue to be judgemental instead of being helpful. I made a decision based on what I see in my daughter, it was not a rush decision, it was one I have tried to prepare her for. I would prefer to have problems with her playing with a puppy than to have her watch a dog she can't touch everyday.

THEY ARE NEVER LEFT UNSUPERVISED. Which is why I was so worried after 2 weeks, I have been watching them progress or not progress the whole time. And that is why I was looking for ideas about what we could do to help things along. We have to watch her with Amber so watching her isn't really something new in this house. We have always kept the house gated up so that the dog is contained to our main living area anyway and just kept it that way when Reagan came along. Play is all of us in the floor most of the time. I am trying to teach my daughter, I do not throw her a puppy and a chew toy and walk out of the room or toss her outside to play in the yard. If I was like that she would have already been bitten by Amber long ago.
My hubby watches them too he just doesn't notice the puppy piddling. Possibly on purpose... And I actually think most of the accidents I am finding on the floor are from him letting Tresa run around in the morning while he is getting ready for work.

And today and tonight all 3 of them were playing in my living room while my husband and I both watched. So yea, I was in a panic over nothing but I KNOW IT INVOLVES MY DAUGHTER AND A PUPPY, I AM NOT A MORON. I figured it was better to ask for help than to keep trying something I wasn't sure was working. But maybe I have learned a different lesson here. One that says all kids are the same and there is some age set by the righteous somewhere on what is the appropriate age for dog ownership.

[Shmee]

Steph,
Sorry you've decided to take this personally. I never insulted your intelligence or questioned your abilities in child rearing. Let me give you some background on my kids (all grown now). We brought a mini-doxie into a house with 3 VERY active young boys. She was the cutest thing and everyone loved her. They treated her (for the most part) really well. At the time the boys were, 12,12, and 8 not withstanding my daughter 6, who'd only come 2days a week. So at times, there were 4 kids running around, wrestling, and horseplaying around a dog that was 1/20th of their size. Maya (the puppy) wasn't doing well with all the activity. The kids were loud, rough and sometimes she'd get stepped on out of sheer volume of people in a room and general kid's clutziness. She started submissive peeing because she was obviously scared for her life. Everytime you'd goto pet her, she'd pee. No matter where she was in the house, (or in your lap for that matter) It made no difference. We didn't have a choice, I knew what I had to do and did it. I saw it as her not living her life to it's full potential and made a choice to re-home my dog to someone who I knew would make a better life for her.
Point is here that I didn't make the right decision to bring a small dog with it's temperament into a home that it didn't belong in. What you do and what I do are right in our own homes. Whatever gets you to sleep at nite. I've no doubt that you'll work your problem through and the way you choose to solve it will be the right way for you.

I have no doubt your child is completely mature for her age. I'm basing my comments solely on what you've told us in your posts. I have nothing else to go on. If you're simply venting and don't want any input, then maybe go with a journal instead of a forum.

Goodluck in raising your child and your dogs. Doing it 4times, and surviving all the teen to adult mumbo, moodswings, hormones and dumptruck size laundry piles, I'll take my pass on giving advice on how to raise kids and stick with the dogs.

All the best,

-Shmee

[BusyStephie]

No one has given any ideas about getting them to learn to play together other than me. Heck not even a comment about dealing with the nipping. Everything else has been about my daughter being too young and that they need to be supervised. They are supervised and a 10 yr old could hurt a puppy on accident or on purpose so age is not really the gauge to go by for that. There are other personal reasons for this puppy period to be happening now, there is no changing my daughter's age.

It is the build up of the age comments and tone of the responses. I know she is young, respect that I have made a decision based on how I have brought her up and other personal reasons and move on from the age thing. Not all families can get a puppy at the perfect time.

[Punkygirl0101]

Steph, ALL puppies are different. Not all are going to want to play the same way other puppies would. Some puppies are not very playful, and others have tons of energy. There really is NOTHING you can do to make your puppy play more. Nothing is wrong with your puppy.

[Odetoadream]

I'd go ahead and start training and socializing your pup once she has all her shots. There is really no reason to wait till she's 6 months old to start training. I had a 8 week old pup that knew to sit, down, stay and come as well as the word 'no'. Keep the training sessions to 5 minutes several times a day for one so young. That way she doesn't develop bad habits that you are trying to correct after the fact. I would also discourage the 'chase' game. If I recall you said the pup was GSD mix. She's only doing what most herding breeds do, chase stuff and herd it. If she was separated from her mom and siblings before 12 weeks, she did not learn bite inhibition. So to her, she doesn't know she's getting too rough. Tho if you choose not to stop the chasing game, at least teaching her sit, stay, down, etc. It will allow you or your daughter to redirect the puppy, should she get too mouthy. Not to mention, it will help with the bond as training should be fun for the puppy. Might look into clicker training, as it's all positive.

Something you can also do if you find she is too mouthy, is every time the puppy is to rough, put her in time out for 30 seconds to a minute. Eventually she'll realize every time she bites, she's put in a room alone and play stops. Be patient, don't yell. Simply scoop the pup up and place it in a safe room or behind the gate for a minute and leave her alone.

Hope this helps,
Cinthia

[Dangels]

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I feel that you're putting a little too much preasure on both you daughter and the new puppy. They will bond, but you have to give it a little time. This puppy came from the shelter, and there is a chance that she may have never even seen a little child until she met your daugher. You do have to understand that you and your husband have to be the main people in charge of the puppy, not your daughter. You have already taken a good first step in creating a bond between child and puppy by having your daughter start helping out with some of the "puppy chores" because that will show the puppy that your daughter is a higher member of the pack, and that is important. However, your daughter cannot be allowed to be the "pack leader" in your puppy's eyes, as that would only cause problems down the road. You and your husband have to be the pack leaders.

I think you should start looking at this puppy as a "family pet" not just your daughter's. I have loved animals for as long as I can remember. I got my first cat and some rabbits when I was 3-4 years old. I didn't get my first dog until I was almost 7 years old, although we did have other dogs at the time, and I was very close with them. I always played with them, and what not. But, I think I was still a little to young to form the "dog owner" type bond with them, unti I was almost 7 years old. That's whan I got my dog, Girl. She was born here at my house from an accidental litter (unresponsible on my parents part, I know). It was like I bonded with her instantly, and she was always "my dog". I was the main person that she bonded to, provided her with food/water/treats, I trained her, took her for walks, ect. I think I had just reached the "right" age to take on dog ownership. I don't think that it would have been possible for any of the dogs that we had before that to have become "my dog" simply because I just wasn't old enough to take on that role. Now, i'm not saying that you were wrong to get a dog when your daugher is 4 years old, what i'm saying is, this dog simply will not be your daughers dog, she will be a family dog, and she will more than likely look to you and your husband as the pack leaders.

As has been already stated by other members, I think you should get the puppy into training, and start allowing her to bond with you and your husband. I'm sure that she will bond more with your daughter over time. If you aren't willing to allow this puppy to form that kind of bond with you, then I feel in all honestly that the puppy would be better placed in a new home. If you're dead set on the next dog being your "daughter's dog" I think you'd be better to wait several more years until your daughter is a little bit older, and more able to take on that type of role. If you're willing to allow this puppy to be more "your dog" than your daughter's, I would start training right away.

As for the nipping, whenever the puppy nips, tell her no sternly, and give her a toy or bone to chew on. If she continues to nip, put her in a time out for a couple minutes. That is the method that I use with my dogs, and it's always worked well. I'm sorry, but I don't have any advice on getting your daughter and the puppy to play together.... just give them time, and as they both mature it should happen naturally.

Best of luck!