crate causing problems?

[BellFounder]

My husbands english springer spaniel (5 months) has been raised as a "crate dog" but the last few weeks she has been extremely distressed on being left in her crate, has defecated and unrinated and knocked her water bowl over every night and trodden eveything all round the crate - which she did not do the first couple of weeks we had her. The crate is the right size for her - we got a large one and blocked it off for when she was tiny and we're gradually making it bigger.
Now last night we left her in her basket in a small room, she had urinated but on the paper next to te back door - (we probably just didnt get down in time and she was desparate) but she has been so much more relaxed today, hasnt cried at all when she's been left and hasnt been as "clingy" as normal.
Am i missing something? This is our first crate trained dog, the collie's are all kennel dogs and we have never chosen to crate train a house dog before.

[IceyBlueSibes]

Sounds like she may have seperation anxiety. I'm not an expert on how to cure this, but I've heard you can try to help the situation by leaving for short amounts. From 5 minutes, to 10, then to 20 etc. Don't make a big fuss when you put her in there either. Especially if you "feel bad" for putting her in, or have tension, or seem nervous about leaving her in... dogs can sense this and they feel like the crate is a bad place to be. But if I remmeber correctly, it isn't a good idea to leave the food and water in the crate. That also may be the reason why she's pottying in her crate. You're giving her to opportunity to eliminate by drinking the water all night (puppies should always be taken out when they drink water).

Just remember, she's still young and really won't have complete bladder control until she's at least a year. Some dogs succeed sooner than that, and some take even longer.

That's just my best guess.. someone else may be able to give you better advice. Good luck!

[flyndog]

I'm afraid I'd probabaly do the same thing. Except, being simian, I'd throw the poo at whoever was outside of my cage, instead of leaving it in there - an advantage of having opposable thumbs! I am not a big fan of crates. Yes, it's good that dogs be trained to stay in a crate if they need to be transported to (or remain with) the vet or groomer or at a show. But I disagree that it's natural for dogs to want to stay in them. BTW, I won't debate that in this forum. Dogs want to spend as much time wth their families as possible. Why are your dogs requred to be in a crate in the first place? If they have behavior problems, those should be addresed so that they can be a true part of the family. Is this a "hunting"
dog and kept outside? Bellfounder, what are you doing with a non-herding man?
Kit

[Novel]

OK, my first thought is, and there are probably people that disagree, but, as long as your dog has access to clean water throughout the day, there is no reason for her to have water overnight. Just like you wouldn't encourage a child to drink lots of water before bed and then hold it until morning, you may make crate and potty training worse, by giving her water overnight.
Does she have blankets in her crate? toys? is she comfortable?

When we first got one of our dogs, at 7 months, he was "crate-trained" and was horrible, pretty much doing what you describe above. I believe it was the change in home accompanied by all the other new things in life, like new owners. We had to start crate training from the beginning like he had never been trained. This meant short times in the crate, 5 - 10 minutes, throughout the day, being let out when he was good, always ending on a positive note. This also meant a treat EVERY time he went in his crate. He was also fed in his crate. The crate was home. Always clean blankies, and toys too!
I won't say there were not days I felt like pulling my hair out, but we got through it, and he has become a perfectly mannered dog again, but we did have to re-crate-train.
Also, the schedule at night was a good walk, or long potty time. Then, into the crate, and just like a puppy, come heck or high-water, that pup was in there for 8 hours. If she's crying in those first few hours, you have already made sure that she went potty. If you don't do that, and you hear the crying, you're going to second guess yourself for hours and eventually give in. Don't do it, your puppy will be training you! I can't say it enough, make sure your pup has eliminated/deficated before you go to bed, and then put her in her crate. At 5 months, she has enough bladder control to hold it for at least 5 hours, and when sleeping, through the entire night.

[BellFounder]

She is in the crate because she is not fully house-trained yet. All my dogs are downstairs i dont believe in inviting the behavioural problems that can result from having dogs sleep on your bed. Thats just me, a dogs place is not in the bedroom, none of our housedogs are allowed upstairs.
I dont think its separation anxiety because she has been absolutely fine no crying, nothing when we've left her in the small room without putting her in her crate we can leave her for hours and she doesnt panic, she really panics in the crate.
She had her teddy in her crate which she loves. and is perfectly comfortable - until she messes everything up.
lol flyndog, yes she's a hunter, my husband hasnt had a gundog since we got married and really wants to take up shooting again, so he needs a dog. She will be in the house though, i only keep the collies outside because they're happier out there.

[BellFounder]

thanks novel, she hasnt been potty over night since we started leaving her out of her crate so i think we're just going to leave it. She travels no problems in the crate still so i think we're all good. thanks for the input.

[Novel]

You are welcome for the input, and I am glad that you found something that works for you at this time, BUT... be cautioned that she has just trained you and she got her desired response.
Maybe now is not the time, but she will need to be trained to sleep in her crate again. I guess I'm just envisioning a dog that may decide she doesn't want to ride in the crate in the truck either, and since she got what she wanted the first time, will fight even harder this time to get what she wanted.

[BellFounder]

She will go in her crate no problem and sit and chew her toys in there it is only a problem if she is left alone, she actually loves travelling and will only travel in her crate while she is very young anyway, the other dogs all travel loose in the boot of the car.