Is this b/c he's a puppy?

[clraymond]

I really hope so! I mentioned before this thing that Chance will do- jump with this little bite to it. He first only did it when someone, regardless who it was, came in the door. Now he does it when he gets a bit "rowdy". He will run, jump and bite in the process. It hurts! Mostly he does it to me b/c I'm the one home all day, but he will do the same thing to my husband when he gets home. The girls know to get out of the way when he gets like this and he's never looked at them and charged them. My husband said he's a puppy and will outgrow this. In my opinion, we need to bedoing the proper "teachings" to let him know this is not good so he will stop. I have to be honest and it's very frustrating to me. I don't like it at all. We have a large fenced yard that we play in. Every morning we go and run around, play ball and all that. Then in the evening as well. I play with him in the house during the day too. It's so hot right now and he gets tired easily so I don't want to over due it outside with him. He doesn't spend the whole day doing this, like right now he is passed out! It's probably 2 to 3 times a day he will have these "fits". He starts his obedience school July 12th, that was the next open class. We are doing it with the VBSPCA and it's for 6 weeks.

Any suggestions or comments?

[calgal]

I'm not sure if obedience classes train bad behaviors. You need to stop him from biting, and do it fast before it gets to be too much of a habit. Maybe have a spray bottle handy and get him in the face with a big loud NO! That's my guess, but I'm sure there are many other methods too. Some people would flip him on his nose too. I sure hope you find a way to stop him. That would drive me crazy too!

[clraymond]

Thanks! I'm afraid it won't be addressed at all in the obedience school. I think they are basically just going to do the basic sit, down and all that. (I still want him to do that though!) It said jumping would be covered, but it was listed in a different spot....
I thought about the water bottle as well so I think I'll give that a try. He likes water though, so he might just think it's nice.

Thanks again for your advice!

[Novel]

If he was 4 months or less, I'd say it's a puppy thing, but Chance is not, and he seems to be testing his boundaries. You need to let him know that this is not acceptable. A stern "no", and then no more playing works with some dogs. I've always used "ouch", but what I think really works is that we stop playing if anyone gets too rowdy and tries to bite. I'm in control that way, and I'm letting the dog know what is acceptable, and if they don't play by the rules, they don't get the fun of playing.
More exercise may be helpful. I know it's warm, but a good walk early in the AM may help his spurts of activity. My guys al walk in the AM and they all laze around for the rest of the day, until evening when it's training and then more play. Plus, walks and play time, like throwing the ball or frisbee, is a great way to bond.
Dogs play with their teeth, and Topper especially will run and jump and sometimes brush his teeth against my hand or arm. They're just playing, but if Chance is grabbing your arm it needs to stop, and you don't want your girls to not be able to play with him at anytime. It's kind of like the first day of school for Chance. He's had a whole summer of not having to do anything (the shelter) and now he wants to do well in school (your home) but doesn't know how. If you give him lots of direction now (rules) and be persistent and consistent, he will thrive in school (your home) and you'll be able to relax after a while, and he'll get more freedoms and rights.
Chance has come from a very difficult background. Mostly we're unsure of what he's used to and I think you'd agree he has no background in obedience. The class that you are taking is great, but you can start now. A stern "no" will let him know when he's doing wrong, but if you can keep it more positive, and not put him in situations where he'll misbehave, you'll be able to encourage the good behaviors, and they always learn what's good before they learn what they're not supposed to do.
If you think he's getting too excited and he's getting close to misbehaving, it's time for a new activity, a walk, or throwing the ball, something to keep him from misbehaving.
You're doing great with him, don't give up on him, but don't let him rule your life either.

[clraymond]

Thanks so much Novel!

We always say "No" and try to get away from that situation. He just keeps doing it. Even when I'm saying no! This is why I'm so frustrated! IT just doesn't seem to be working at all! Today and yesterday when he started this, I put him right outside and let him just run, which seemed to help. But I can't always have the leisure of putting him out at the point where he's acting this way. Also, like you said, I don't ever want him to not be able to play with the girls and when he does this, I can't have them anywhere around him for fear he will bite them. It isn't full mouth closed biting, but it's enough that yesterday he broke my skin. I really feel like he is testing us and what worries me is that I'm telling him this isn't acceptable and he's still doing it. I hope I'm not making him sound like a monster dog, he really is sweet and we love him so much already. The only option is finding a solution to this and fixing it. My sister pointed out that the previous owners stated "no time or room" as the reason for turning him in. Maybe he had limited space to run and he's "experimenting" with the extra space now. They also said he wasn't house trained and he has never used the bathroom in the house here. (knock on wood that won't change!) With that, I'm thinking maybe he was left alone for long periods of time. ???? I know the obedience won't help with that, but I would like to "learn" a way of teaching him the basic commands. I was thinking it might help if I had a command to tell him, other than No, when he gets in his "mood". Oh, I read on here someone suggested "yelping" when the dog bites. I tried that, like it hurt me, and he just cocked his head to the side for about 5 seconds and then did it again.

Thanks for listening everyone and sorry this is so long! We want to enjoy every minute of him and this is definitely not enjoyable.

[Novel]

I wish I was there. These things are so difficult to explain in type, versus being able to show... Sigh.
It sounds like he's testing, and you two are having a communication problem. I'm not trying to be harsh with my next statement, but YOU need to MAKE him stop. You need to be in control. It is vital to his and your happiness.
If he bites at you, and his teeth are hurting you, you MUST make him stop. If "no" doesn't work, you need to step it up and find something that DOES work. I personally, after being ignored with the no, would grab him by the scruff of the neck, and get his attention and say "no". If he tried it again, I would probably dominate him by pinning him to the floor, and keeping him there until he stopped struggling. Do not let him ignore a command that you give him. You do not need to yell, or scream, or being unnecessarily physical, but you may have to communicate at his level (physical) before he can communicate at your level (Spoken commands).
If you watch two dogs play they are vocal and physical. They play and growl and roll around on the ground. If one dog wants it to stop, he may give a short bark or a growl, like a person saying "no", and if the dog continues to play, the dog that wants to stop takes it up a notch. That dog may nip, grab the other dog by the scruff of the neck, or stand over him and dominate. To be top dog though, the dog must make the other dog stop, just as you MUST make Chance stop, or he's not going to see you as in charge.
It's hard because he doesn't know other commands. If he knew sit, you could make him do that when you see his behavior accelerating. It's not Chance's fault that he's acting like this. He doesn't know proper dog-human interaction, and you will need to teach him.
I'm sorry I'm not more help, and I hope we get some more opinions, because I definitely don't know everything, and each dog learns a little differently and what works for one dog doesn't work for another.

[DarknessDivine]

I would try him with a stern no. I personally would not try pinning him down or anything of the sort, a lot of people get bit in the face that way.

[clraymond]

I'm sorry I'm not more help

Please, you are always a ton of help to me!

I have tried the stern "no". (I'm a mom of a 2-year-old, I got that down!) He just will still go at it. My husband tried the hold down on the floor deal, and I said not to- so we are definitely having communication issues with it. We both see the great dog that's in him though so at least we agree on that. He does know "sit", but that's really it. I stand up, if I'm sitting at the time, because when I'm standing over him he tends to listen more. I do say "Chance, sit" and also no, when he's biting. It's just frustrating because I KNOW that he needs to stop this, but it just seems like I'm doing everything other than being physical, which I won't do so that's out...., and he is still not getting it. Today was better though and we are going to try the morning walk starting tomorrow. He really hasn't been here that long and other things he is really catching onto so I'm not going to give up.

Thanks again everyone for the advice. If anyone else has been through it and something else worked for them, I'm all ears!

[Kade]

Have you tried keeping him on a leash in the house so you can correct him when he jumps?

Does he do this in play? While you're interacting with him? If so, when he bites, you need to immediately stop play. Walk away and ignore him, leave him wondering why his playmate is gone.

Winston has crazy times, too, where he gets so worked up during play that he starts lunging for our faces. (He's only 9 weeks old, so I don't worry too much about it.) If he nips, we immediately pick him up and put him in his pen, alone. He'll either calm down or take out his energy on his toys, but either way he's (hopefully) learning that we don't play that way.

Also, does "no" work in any situations? This is just a feeling, but it sounds like that word has lost its meaning to him. You might start fresh with "Enough!" or "Off!"

Good luck! My friends with a bully breed (a Frenchy) had a lot of luck with the "stop play and ignore" strategy.

[clraymond]

Hi and thanks.

Usually he will do it when he wants to play and I'm reading the paper or just sitting on the couch. So, I tried getting him outside to run around and "play" with him- at first this was my approach- but he still just jumped and took a bite. I do agree that the word "no" probably lost it's meaning to him b/c I was saying it so much and he wasn't listening. It's impossible to just ignore him, b/c he isn't small and most of the time we weren't playing to begin with. I also don't want to put him in his crate b/c of it, b/c that's where he goes at night and when we leave the house. I don't want him to think of his crate as a "bad" place. (I don't have a pen in the back for him) I did try today when he started this what someone said earlier in a post. When he started, I put him laying on the floor (i wasn't rough with him though) and I said "stop". He just looked at me like he couldn't believe it and he didn't do it anymore. So.... hopefully, he is starting to realize who the boss is.

Cross your fingers anyway....

Thanks again!

[Novel]

That is wonderful. It seems like you got him to stop and think, and you got the behavior to stop. That's what you're really after. Getting the behavior to stop, and I know that you love Chance enough to find what works for you and him.
Keep it up, you're doing Great!!!

[Carrie]

Obedience training will address this and other issues, not necessarily directly, but by improving your relationship with your dog....you, being the leader and him being the "worker." Just show your dog that gentleness, calmness and obedience is what will get him attention and affection. The puppy behavior that we don't like is him just being a dog. He hasn't learned yet that we want him to be more like a human. This is a gradual, learning process. I don't believe in severely punishing a behavior that is normal for a dog, BUT...I do put a stop to it by giving NO payoff for it AND giving the dog an alternative behavior to perform and then rewarding for that. The alternative behavior can be one which is incompatible with the rotten thing he's doing. If he's jumping up, ask for a sit. He can't jump while sitting. If he's biting, give no attention but give him something he IS allowed to chew on. If it's not play time, give him another command that he can be distracted with and reward with that. This type of training works and keeps the dog's spirit and trust very much intact, makes him more willing to learn new things...which personally, I like. Sometimes any attention, stern or not is still attention and that is often what the dog is seeking.

[clraymond]

Great advice as well.

Okay, so the past couple days were a lot better, not perfect, but better! The other night when my husband got home, Chance started the craziness again. I had gotten him a tug of war type chew thing previously. My husband put that in his mouth and started playing that way. When Chance moved off the toy, my husband put it down and walked away. Now, we got to try the "ignore" thing. Chance didn't like it. He picked up the rope and followed my husband. My husband said "sit", he sat and then they started playing that way. Today it was sooooo much better. Chance really is a smart dog. I've seen it since day one with little things he will do. He picks something up daily so I think he might be getting it. And today my youngest, she's 2, picked up the rope and he gently put his mouth on it and played with her. He was holding back so much, I could tell. So, it was a great day with him and he's learning what we want and expect day by day.

I'm so in love with this pup!

[Crossfire Bulldogs]

Is he actually biting or hard mouthing during play? Many Bulldogs are known for mouthing hard while playing. Personally I would play tug with a Bulldog or Bulldog mix. jmo

[Novel]

I think Crossfire means wouldn't...

I play tug with my Boxer, but only when we're training. I would never want her to latch on to my arm, as she has a powerful jaw. Boxers, bullies, and other breeds have been trained through their genetics to find some things more enticing than others.
If you were to take a toy on a rope and drag it through the yard, the Weims will go crazy chasing it, and staring at it, sneaking up on it and pointing it. The Boxer, would chase it and grab it, every time. Her prey drive makes her grab hold and bite, hard! That's why they are more easily trained for Schutzhund or police work than say, a Weimaraner or Poodle, although it can be done, it takes considerable more work, because you're having to train what is already there in instinct in a "bite" dog.
I wouldn't say NEVER play tug with Chance, but it is helpful to know his wiring is set up for him to bite, full mouth. I would definitely not let the girls play that type of game with him, because as you said, he is holding back, and one bad day, could turn into tragedy. I would encourage the girls to play frisbee or throw the tennis ball for him. Or maybe teach him a trick that the girls can enjoy with him, like treating him when he sits. This will increase their bond, but not have Chance view them as a competitor in a game, but more as the person to be respected. Dogs like anyone with food, and if they are asking something of him first, and he must obey, than you are setting the correct order in the family.

"dogs like anyone with food" I always chuckle, because if a burglar came to my house, and brought a pound of hamburger, he would never hear a peep from Laney. She'd have her mouth too full, but since Alley and Topper are so darn picky, I know that they'll always still be on guard.