Is my puppy marking?

[petite four]

My 3-months-old Louis likes to urinate in-door. He is a puppy, at the beginning, I think it is a obedience problem.

Buttttt.....horribly.......so many times, when he is urinating on our living room floor, I immediately say "NO" and put him outside. HOWEVER, he may stop and "bear" not to continue his urine ( can be 10-15mins long), until he goes back into home, he may go to the living room again to continue his urination (that has not yet completed before) when I do not aware..

Though he is urine in horizontal area, I afraid he is marking his territory! As my boy is quite dominance aggresive! Or anyone can help, tell me what happen?

[Odetoadream]

It's not a obedience problem. Its a house training problem. He's confused. He's a baby, he can't hold it that long.

Why do you think he is 'dominance aggresive' ?

You need to keep a eye on him 24/7 when he's out of his crate. Take him out every 2-3 hours till he gets the idea to go potty outside. Do NOT go back in with him till he does potty. He will need to go out after eating, after napping and playtime. Clean up the areas he's had accidents in very well and every time he does his business outside praise him lavishly and pet him.

He may not know how to tell you he needs to go out. Don't be so quick to blame him, often it is our own fault that there was a accident. Remember he's a -baby- don't expect too much from him. Be consistant and for the first few weeks get a schedule down and take him out a LOT soon it'll click and he'll stop pottying in the house.


Sincerely,
Cinthia

[elegy]

i agree with cinthia. he's just a baby for goodness sakes! i too am curious what makes you say he is dominant aggressive.

prevention of mistakes is the best way to teach a dog where to go potty. he needs to go out before he knows he needs to potty. puppies are like little kids- by the time they realize they need to potty, they needed to go five minutes ago. it's up to you to make sure he gets to the appropriate place on a schedule so as to prevent mistakes. it needs to be up to you right now to tell him when he has to go. you can't wait for him to tell you.

does he have a crate? if you're taking him out (and make sure he's on a leash) and he's not going, bring him back in, put him in his crate for ten minutes, and then try again. keep repeating this until he goes outside and then have a big party so he knows he did the right thing!

[calgal]

First off you NEVER let an untrained puppy run around in the house. You either keep him in a crate and take him outside every couple of hours for play and potty, or tie him to you while you go about your own routine. You have to "train" puppies. They are animals who only know to relieve themselves when the urge hits, no matter where they are. There are hundreds of books on this subject. You should get two......one for crate training and one for house training.

[paramount]

You've got a baby and he's just learning to control his bladder. There's nothing you can do but have patience and follow a regimented schedule to foster his housetraining. Try something like:

-Wakeup. Take pup out
-Free period in kitchen (20-30 mins)
-Food and water
- Go out 1/2 hr later
-Free period in kitchen (20-30 mins)
-put him in puppy pen (ie somewhere you can easily clean up)

-Middle of day, food and water
-go out 1/2 hr later
-free period in kitchen (20-30 mins)

.... ad infinitum

Just slowly work towards the goal. Gradually increase his free periods as he becomes more reliable with his habits. If you haven't crate trained him yet, do it immediately. Also, I recommend 'How to Housebreak your dog in 7 days' by Shirlee Kalstone. It's a quick read and covers all the basics of housetraining, while tackling it from different angles (pups/adults/people who work all day/etc.)

[petite four]

Originally Posted by Odetoadream

It's not a obedience problem. Its a house training problem. He's confused. He's a baby, he can't hold it that long.

Why do you think he is 'dominance aggresive' ?

You need to keep a eye on him 24/7 when he's out of his crate. Take him out every 2-3 hours till he gets the idea to go potty outside. Do NOT go back in with him till he does potty. He will need to go out after eating, after napping and playtime. Clean up the areas he's had accidents in very well and every time he does his business outside praise him lavishly and pet him.

He may not know how to tell you he needs to go out. Don't be so quick to blame him, often it is our own fault that there was a accident. Remember he's a -baby- don't expect too much from him. Be consistant and for the first few weeks get a schedule down and take him out a LOT soon it'll click and he'll stop pottying in the house.


Sincerely,
Cinthia

Thanks for all your advice. Let me say my story....

...he's been recovered from distemper (it's a really tough period for me, I cried many times, and paid so much attention and energy to take care of him so save his life, I feel pretty tired now!)....maybe becoz of this, I spoiled him to become a donminance aggressive dog (i suspect) .

He is really clever. He quicly learnt sit,stay and hand commands in the first three days I took him back. But he is naughty and stubborn. I want to have a good relationship with him, so I started at reading many dogs’ behavior, psychology and obedience books.

He'd bite our me and family, (I know it is common phenonmenon to puppy as playing), so I've tried my best to trained him that he rare bite me now. And now every time when I‘m going to give him meal or toy, I don’t need to use verbal command, he may sit in front of me by self. I feel quite proud of these as he just come with us for short period only.

However, I find that, his behavoir is much like to many books described as “a dominent aggressive” dog.
He is the very active kind. He would paw and jump to us, (maybe all you say he just a baby, but according to all guides I read, this behavior should be eliminated as soon as possible especially for a large size breed. Paw and jump to people doesn’t mean he wants to greet with you, but wants to show his dominance.). He would bark at us. He selectively follows our command, just as his liking. Very often, he ignores us even he can hear we call him (except meal time)! Once we open our bed room door, he speed up to run inside and jump into our bed! He still bite and bark me when I clean him. Even we want to pet him, he usually struggles and runs aways. He just think sit and hand can get his treat and toys. Others? NOWAY! Crate training? He may continuously bark if I put him into crate, and just last night, my puppy barked for about half an hour, my disgesting neighbourhood called the police! God! Both the dog and my neighbour make me mad!

To his urinating habit.... I dare say he can “hold” his bladder for 20 - 30 mins as I observed him for several days. Every time he is about to urinate at my living room’s floor, and as well 20 mins after he’s drunk water, I immediately take him out to his toilet place, and I accompany with him there for 15 mins. But he “holds” , he wants to escape, and finally even no one drip would be excreted. But once he goes back into living room, he may quickly urinate on floor.

I am not sure he is thinking he is our pack leader or not. But I sure he is quite an aggresive kind.

[petite four]

....and I feel exhausted. To certain aspects, he is very difficult to be controlled. As an owner I love my puppy so much and of cause will to be patient to pay much time to train him. But if he goes on give me trouble, my neighbourhood--an old fat guy who hates dog, would never stop to disturb me!

I understand that he is a baby only, but as a Collie he learns quickly and thinks independantly. He is obvisouly quite rebellious and doesn't want to be subordinate in our family.

I think I just can take a class now but no other option.

[Odetoadream]

Ok, lemme tell ya first off. He is NOT agressive. Do you know anything about this breed? Do not believe everything a book tells you.

He is a BABY. Lemme repeat that...a BABY.

Collies are notorious for barking. They also jump. They are also a herding breed so are very mouthy. Meaning they nip and bite in play.

Seeing as he's been treated for distemper that might explain some things. Because when he was sick, when he was touched things hurt, he was probly poked and proded so needs time to relize people touching and holding him is a good thing.

Puppies have all these habits you described. They grow out of them as you teach them and it can take a while. If he's still jumping, it's because your going about it wrong or are not being consistant.

As for the potty training. You need to wait him out. At the present he thinks inside is potty. So he -will- hold it. You have to wait him out and take him in only -after- he has done his business.

You are expecting -way- to much from this puppy right now.

Puppies have selective hearing, kids do too, heck some adults do. :P

What books are you reading. Because I would not classify a puppy of that age as aggressive. That's like labeling a 6 month old -human- baby, aggressive.

This just breaks my heart. You have a very -gentle- breed here. And all the puppy behaviours that any normal puppy is doing you are saying he is aggressive which is very much far from the truth.

Trust me, they will try your nerves, they will ignore you. It doesn't make them aggressive or bad. It makes them PUPPIES. They arn't machines, they have desires of thier own, you just need to teach your puppy to curb them when you give a command.

You -really- need to take classes with your puppy, find a reputable trainer and start learning a bit more about what is normal for a puppy.

[petite four]

Originally Posted by Odetoadream

Ok, lemme tell ya first off. He is NOT agressive. Do you know anything about this breed? Do not believe everything a book tells you.

He is a BABY. Lemme repeat that...a BABY.

Collies are notorious for barking. They also jump. They are also a herding breed so are very mouthy. Meaning they nip and bite in play.

Seeing as he's been treated for distemper that might explain some things. Because when he was sick, when he was touched things hurt, he was probly poked and proded so needs time to relize people touching and holding him is a good thing.

Puppies have all these habits you described. They grow out of them as you teach them and it can take a while. If he's still jumping, it's because your going about it wrong or are not being consistant.

As for the potty training. You need to wait him out. At the present he thinks inside is potty. So he -will- hold it. You have to wait him out and take him in only -after- he has done his business.

You are expecting -way- to much from this puppy right now.

Puppies have selective hearing, kids do too, heck some adults do. :P

What books are you reading. Because I would not classify a puppy of that age as aggressive. That's like labeling a 6 month old -human- baby, aggressive.

This just breaks my heart. You have a very -gentle- breed here. And all the puppy behaviours that any normal puppy is doing you are saying he is aggressive which is very much far from the truth.

Trust me, they will try your nerves, they will ignore you. It doesn't make them aggressive or bad. It makes them PUPPIES. They arn't machines, they have desires of thier own, you just need to teach your puppy to curb them when you give a command.

You -really- need to take classes with your puppy, find a reputable trainer and start learning a bit more about what is normal for a puppy.

Thanks Odetoadream

These days I feel extremely nervous. To take care of his disease, handle his obedience problem, and on the other hand my neigbourhood's "pressure", I seem to make thing more mess.

I don't know to teach dog. It is very ordinary for the beginning owner to start with reading books, hope you understand. I know I cannot trust the books in whole so I've already found an instructor and may take my first class the coming weekend, hope it help.

Can you share more your experience on Collie with me? I really feel sad when I see my poor puppy, has already rescused from death. He barks when is put into the crate. I don't care he barks, but if my neigbourhood calls the police again, we may have trouble to own him. I really do not will...to give him a bark collar. I think it may make him more nervous and unhappy. But I need to do so. He can still bark after wearing it, but he barks difficultly and quickly feels tired.

[621mum]

Hi, Petite Four!
It's hard having a puppy, eh? Your posts sound like you love him and are really trying to figure out how to train him well and get the advice you need. I know the feeling of not knowing much about dogs or training. I think that few people do a lot of breed research before they pick a dog (other than maybe reading a little bit), and many of the folks on this board are the exceptions. I don't think you are alone in worrying that your dog has aggression problems. It is hard when you read about those issues and then think you see them in your dog (my new puppy bites HARD sometimes, my previous dog never did... I sometimes have moments of worry myself). But, just keep telling yourself "He's only a puppy; he's only a puppy" Train him as well as you can and then wait, he will outgrow a lot of this as he gets bigger.

Where do you live? (Your posts don't read with quite the same word rhythms as a native speaker of English) Are there puppy/dog obedience classes available to you? They might help you and the pup. It will be good for him for socialization etc. and will help you get confidence about how normal he is and your own ability to train him.

Keep trying with the crate. When you put him in, give him a really good treat that he only gets when he is in the crate. Have you tried a kong toy stuffed with something yummy and frozen? Make his time in the crate very limited at first; put him in and give him the treat and then before he can get mad let him back out. Keep increasing the time a bit... a bit.... a bit.... Eventually, he'll get happier about the crate. My puppy has started "asking" to go in hers because she likes the treats she gets there. Once you get him used to the crate it will help with some of the other issues because you will have a place he can be contained when he is getting too wild and it will help with the housetraining.

I don't know exactly what to tell you about the neighbor. He sounds unpleasant. But with the barking, try to see what may be happening that "rewards" the barking. Do you pay attention to him when he barks (even to "shush" him)? That may be his reward. See if you can figure out a way to remove that reward and it might help.

Good luck with it all and keep trying!

[Odetoadream]

I understand, we all start some where. Sorry if I was a bit gruff.

Collies are barkers. They always bark. The easiest way I can tell you how to curb it is make it a game. Teach them to speak on command, then teach them 'quiet'. It will take time, but you can do it.

Training the collie is very easy, they are eager to please and bright. Make training fun and they will often work just for praise. Mine will spit the treats out at me in favor of a cuddle and praise. They -live- to please thier owners.

Puppies on the other hand are a handful, collies are jokers. Mine even at 18 months old will do things simply to make us laugh. He -knows- what laughter is and will do things to get us too. If we laugh one time he'll repeat it. Very much like a child. *lol*

As for the crate issue. Start feeding him in his crate. But leave the door open. Push the bowl to the back of the crate so he MUST go in it to eat. Leave the bowl down for 20 minutes. If he doesn't eat it, pick it up. If he is eating leave him be. Start giving him treats in there, but leave the door open so he gets accustom to good things being inside it. Once he doesn't worry about going in and out of it. Push the door closed but don't lock it. Only leave it like that a few seconds before opening it again. Do this every day till you can close the door and latch it. This may take a few weeks to achieve so be patient. Once you can latch it, leave it latched only for a brief period. If he is calm open it. If he starts barking ignore him. Only when he is quiet, praise and let him out. You might have to time it when he's taking a breath between barks:P

Might also try covering his crate if it's a wire one. Some pups won't bark so much if they can't see you, while others perfer to see you.

How long do you walk him? A collie should get about 1-2 hours of excersize outside a day, more if possible. These guys are -full- of energy. You may not think he needs it as he's semi-calm in the house. But, this breed knows how to turn it on and off, they were ment to be couch potatos and calm inside, but the minute they step out the door they are ready to work and will work till they drop.

As for house breaking, keep him on a leash and watch him like a hawk. Take him out often and -every- time he potties outside, praise him and play with him outside so he understands he pleased you.

He will have selective hearing. Pups have many stages much like human kids do. Terrible 2's are about where you are. Into EVERYTHING, and won't listen that well. A puppies attention span is...very brief. Training sessions should only be 10-15 minutes at the most. Better to have several small 5 minute sessions through out the day. Then the teenage years, they hear ya, know what you want, but look at you as if they don't know who you are or what that command is. They eventually grow up and get better, but in the mean time, you in for a trying time. Everyone goes through it, its frustraiting but well worth it!

Your pup is just where he needs to be, he knows about all the commands Kody did at his age, so be proud of yourself and him.

I will be happy to share more information if you like. Feel free to PM or email me if you have a specific question.

Sincerely,
Cinthia

[petite four]

Thanks so much, Cinthia.

Though I still believe puppys can also be aggressive or submissive, I understand the most important is, I should give more patient to educate/teach him as he's small and let him know I am his leader.
I might do something wrong in the past so he didn't respect me, I believed. Such as over-spoil and impatient.

Last week I've been giving him crate training, this seems quite helpful. I am not sure is it related to the crate train, but he now seems more rule-following/more cooperated --
rare bite me; present quite stable during being brushed and cleaned; only one to two barks a day....
I feel happy to see his change (though just a little bit) . So I would insist and work hard.

[Odetoadream]

I'm glad to hear he's doing better.

However I disagree. Agression and dominance are two completely different things.

Is he snarling at you? baring teeth? Biting you more severely then what a normal puppy would? (Keep in mind herding breeds are notorious nippers, it's how they moved stuborn live stock. So they nip, and nibble on us for different reasons.) Is he growling with a tone he means business? (puppys play growl, don't confuse it with the real thing.) Is his body stiff when he does growl? Does he defend his territory, food and toys by growling, snarling, or biting? That is aggression.

I think what you mean is he's dominant. Which is likely, there's usually one in every litter. Doesn't mean he's bad. He just thinks he's the boss. With consistant training and a lot of work, he'll adjust to his new position easily once you take the role as boss. Even mine challenges his position when he was going through his teenage months. It's normal.

I just think your use of labeling this darling pup as aggressive is a bit much for a puppy of his age.

Sincerely,
Cinthia

[flyndog]

I agree. It's a rare 3 month old that is truly aggressive.
Glad to hear you are able to find a training class. I think you will come to really enjoy training him. Collies love to work for you and like Cinthia said, they are so bright and eager to please.

[petite four]

My pupper last time bite my hand bled. So heart-breaking as an owner I am.

I have no idea some people said small puppy is no aggressive at all.
Maybe luckily your dogs are not aggressive, but just naughty, you may not find and annoyed by this problem. But I do. As you are not the owner of my dog, I trust only myself know how's my dog's character.

Same as human, puppies/dogs also have their own characters. Depends on how and the level they present their characters, though pup are small. It is not right if people said " all puppies at 2-3 months-old are the same same ...." If the same, we are no need to find a private trainer to teach us, because " the difference", so need "tailor-made".

I attended a private session last week. The trainer said, my pup is really belonged to aggressive kind. He taught me to use "Forceful train + Positive reinforcement" both. No use for only "Positive reinforcement" . After practising the exercise daily, I can see my pup's change. No bark even crate, no need to use bark collar, on bite, let me bath and brush, nail cutting.

Dogs are originally wild animal. Please don't treat a puppy as a human baby. He is 3 months old, but he has already had his own character, he can do much much more than that a 3-months-old human baby can. A two-months-old baby is too small and doesn't understanding anything, this is talking about a human but not a dog. Dog is not as human thinking in reasonable way. If a 3-months-old puppy is not treated as a pet, he's already known to do many things for survival as the animal nature!

I understand that all you here are so kind that want to give me help. But please, don't reject my idea so early. I am asking help here and want anyone can believe and understand my situation.