Rough Play with the Kids

YK Shepherd · 09-09-2005, 08:15 AM

I have been through some major training issues with this poor pup but so far improvement has been achieved. He is a 6 month old gsd from working lines, he is a ball of energy. Extremely high prey drive as well, according to his temperment test. He has gone through the peeing in the crate, due to abuse before we got him. Although he does still pee in the crate we rarely use a crate. Have found it unnecessary at least for now. This poor pup has had a rough life including a paid pet sitter who beat the heck out of him while we were away. This was three weeks ago and the jerk caused a serious injury to Yukon's shoulder. This shoulder injury meant and has meant no walks, no exercise. Poor pup. I have this week be doing some swimming with him at a pool, and he is at least able to burn some energy but his time is limited due to the injury.

Problem that has arised and not to the dogs fault is that he is becoming really rough with the kids. I have two toddlers and my 2 year old has been able to end the hassel by hitting the dog or kicking him. Not a good solution and it has been stopped by me. I do not approve of kids hitting or kicking animals; but it has worked for her with Yukon. But my oldest is 3 years old and she is very shy so she curls up and the dog jumps on her. I sure do realize that this is a pup with a ton of energy, and no way of releasing the energy.

I never leave the kids unattended with the dog. I have started keeping a leash on Yukon when inside so I am able to grab the leash when he charges at the kids. Is there anything else I can do to teach him to play nice?

Before this injury Yukon was getting hours and hours of ball, frisbie fetch games and he never ever bothered the kids. He was to tired and as soon as he can start exercising again, I will tire him out but in the mean time any ideas?

calgal · 09-09-2005, 10:46 AM

Right now he sounds out of control because he isn't sure where he ranks in the pack, so he's doing all the things that come naturally to him in order to find his place. You need to take him to obedience classes for starters. I'm so sorry this poor pup got off to a very bad start. Now he has to learn to trust.

Kade · 09-09-2005, 10:50 AM

I would definitely do obedience class and also do everything in your power to establish the kids as higher-ranking pack members. They eat first. They are greeted first and talked to first by anyone who comes into the room. Teach them a simple hand signal like "down" or "sit" and have them be the ones to call for a behavior before the dog is fed, watered, or gets a toy.

(Edited to add: where does the dog sleep? If not in a crate, I would get one and implement it.)

Keep them separated, and keep the dog on a leash until he gets it. Think about a training lead (tied onto you) so he doesn't see the leash as interactive. Don't speak to him, just have the leash be his cue to follow you around the house. The dog needs to feel "bossed around" for a while until he gets that it's about *you*, not about him. At which point he will feel very comforted.

Do it until it's done. The alternative is not worth it!

dollface · 09-09-2005, 11:11 AM

I agree basic obedience....

You can have your children feed him at meal times, but always make him work for his food.. Before they feed him have him sit and wait, put food down then give ok command so he can eat. Next time make him lay down, but he does not get his food till he does what is told. Only give a command once and make him sit or laydown, by putting him in the sit/down position... I take it he should no these commands.... Since you have him on leash I take it he goes every where you go, which makes obedience training easy to learn. if your washing dishes you could put him in a down and make him wait till your done before releasing him. Stop everynow and then release praise and put him in a sit ect... Allow the kids to come and pet him and put him in a down so he is calm ect... He sees your children as a playmate, he has to see them as much more then that and thats where feeding him ect comes in... Having them do things for him helps loads.... best of luck

YK Shepherd · 09-09-2005, 11:15 AM

He does sleep in a crate when we are away but when we are home I have a puppy proofed room for him only when we do not have our eye on him. He has hugh anxieties towards the crate from being kept in one 24/7 as a young pup. The litter was taken from mom at 4 weeks of age and all of them throwen into one small crate. They stayed in that crate until 9 weeks old which was when I bought him. They were never allowed out of the crate not even to walk. He could hardly walk when we brought him home. So we do try and avoid the crate as much as possible. His reaction to it is he pees in it and then rolls in the pee. We of course do not discipline because it is not his fault but it is a stinky mess to clean up and it is avoidable to a small extent.

He has done all the basic and advanced obedience classes and done well. He is such a little fire ball and before his injury he was fine because we exercised him alot. Now without the exercise his mind is running wild for things to do. Cannot blame the dog here either. The swimming he does really is not even close to enough to burn off that energy. Again not the dogs fault, he cannot help it when he is not recieving appropriate exercise and I cannot offer apropriate exercise for another 2 weeks. Then back to slowly adding in the exercise. I believe things will improve when he gets to run and play some. It must be aweful to have to contain so much energy and not be allowed to play.

YK Shepherd · 09-09-2005, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dollface

I agree basic obedience....

You can have your children feed him at meal times, but always make him work for his food.. Before they feed him have him sit and wait, put food down then give ok command so he can eat. Next time make him lay down, but he does not get his food till he does what is told. Only give a command once and make him sit or laydown, by putting him in the sit/down position... I take it he should no these commands.... Since you have him on leash I take it he goes every where you go, which makes obedience training easy to learn. if your washing dishes you could put him in a down and make him wait till your done before releasing him. Stop everynow and then release praise and put him in a sit ect... Allow the kids to come and pet him and put him in a down so he is calm ect... He sees your children as a playmate, he has to see them as much more then that and thats where feeding him ect comes in... Having them do things for him helps loads.... best of luck

Oh yes he knows the commands and very well. He is leashed not attached but I step on the leash to keep him with me at all times. It is a safety thing right now. He is a good dog but with the lack of exercise right now I think he is literally going batty. Two more weeks and then the exercise is allowed to start again and that will burn him out some. I can say down and then stay and walk away, go take a shower and come back he is still in the same down stay. At 6 months old I think that is good. If the kids are charging around and screaming his brain falls out. Again before his injury when he was getting exercise we had absolutely no problems with the kids and him. None.

GSD · 09-09-2005, 11:55 AM

Sounds like exercising will get him back to no problems again. Its a good idea to have the kids make him work for his food and then feed him and things like that, although I'm not sure this is a rank issue more so than just a " i need to release some energy and play issue" but it can only help and won't hurt. Swimming is always great exercise when running and walking are out of the question. If you don't mind could you PM me the breeder that you got your dog from. I'm interested in who would keep such a fine working animal in such deplorable conditions. Thank you

YK Shepherd · 09-09-2005, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSD

Sounds like exercising will get him back to no problems again. Its a good idea to have the kids make him work for his food and then feed him and things like that, although I'm not sure this is a rank issue more so than just a " i need to release some energy and play issue" but it can only help and won't hurt. Swimming is always great exercise when running and walking are out of the question. If you don't mind could you PM me the breeder that you got your dog from. I'm interested in who would keep such a fine working animal in such deplorable conditions. Thank you

I will Pm the name and phone number to you, It is not the original breeder though. The OB had a heart attack just before the puppies were born so the wife who has cancer and is unable to care for dogs and puppies sold the mom. But I can pass on where I got him from and also let it be known that this fella has had all dogs removed from the property and is or has been charged with animal cruelty. I reported him!

Sorry for not saying but yes starting tonight at his supper time I will have the kids help me feed him and have him work for his food. Even at 2&3 years old they can hold a piece of kibble and have him sit for it. Maybe not do anything else because they have problems with the words but at least a sit. I agree it sure will not hurt anything at all.

Kade · 09-09-2005, 12:57 PM

I do feel bad for the pup! All that energy and no place to burn it. Does he have some really tough chew toys? That's a good way to burn energy. Training and working their little minds also tires them out.

You're a champ to do this with two young kids! Honestly it sounds like it would be easier to contain the kids than the dog, LOL. But I think you'll have some luck with the kids commanding him and feeding him. Do you have hand signals? If they can't say the words, they could definitely learn the gestures.

Keep in mind, the results may not be immediate but everything adds up in a puppy's brain. The more you repeat procedures that establish the children as dominant, the more he will respect them. Be sure he sees them eating before he eats, they go through doorways first, etc. Layer by layer he will come to see them as the bosses.

YK Shepherd · 09-09-2005, 01:05 PM

Hey never thought of that yes he knows his hand signals very well. We taught them right along with the verbal commands. The kids for sure can do all of those! Thanks sometimes I am dumb.

He has alot of toys to chew and more on the way. Every time we go out we come back with new toys. He is a spoiled boy for sure. He likes his hugh rawhide bone the best; he just has problems going through doorways with it. I will try and get a picture of him with that thing trying to pass through doorways it is funny. He has a follow up vet appointment on Mon and I am hoping he will be allowed to start some walking because he seems to not being showing any lameness now. Fingers crossed for him anyway. Really I think considering his life he is being a super good doggy.

Kade · 09-09-2005, 01:08 PM

Sounds like it!

Sweet little guy.

YK Shepherd · 09-09-2005, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kade

Sounds like it!

Sweet little guy.

Thanks we love him

sammy · 09-10-2005, 11:18 AM

My dog used to pee in his crate when we got him. It's very common in dogs who were kept in a crate for long periods and therefore HAD to go in a crate.
I cleaned the crate out really well and then started feeding him his two meals a day in his crate--it worked like a charm.
He quit peeing in it right away. I don't feed him in his crate anymore. I think I only did it for a week or maybe even 5 days. Might be an idea to try-- with a dog you need to supervise it's handy to be able to crate them for short periods without having to deal with a big clean up afterwards-or feeling badly that you're making the dog miserable- especially when you have two kids keeping you busy.

I was also told (by my trainer) that it would be a good idea to get him used to the crate so he lost his bad association with it. That way if he had to be in a crate at agility/ obedience trials or at the vet or when he's being babysat etc etc it wouldn't traumatize him. So I started crating him every day for a few minutes while I was at home. I gave him a favorite bone or stuffed kong to chew while he was in there. He now happily goes in his crate and all his fear of it is gone. It's been very handy for us.
Good luck with Yukon. I'm glad you are so committed to helping him overcome his past hurts

flyndog · 09-10-2005, 11:36 AM

YK, according to your post here, http://www.globalpaw.com/thread7774.html this is not just a routine "rough play with kids" issue. Your dog has known aggression issues. I'm glad you are working with him and seeking help. What happened to the trainer or behavior consultant you mentioned in the other thread? An internet forum is a good place for support, but you should be taking advice from a real life behavior consultant who is in a position to understand all the nuances of your case.
Kit

YK Shepherd · 09-10-2005, 11:45 AM

The behavioralist evaluated the dog in 4 hours, yes 4 hours. HMM interesting. Sent Yukon home and said he needed to be isolated from the kids and slowely desensitized from his fear biting. So not much help there and the trainers that are close to me have all agreed before meeting Yukon that PTS is the only option. That is not even fair because they never even met the dog. So I am doing what I can with what I have and considering maybe joinging a club in Montreal about 3 hours away. The people there think it would be great for Yukon and me and give us the chance to gain confidence together.

09-09-2005, 08:15 AM	#1 (permalink)
YK Shepherd Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 449 Rep Power: 0	Rough Play with the Kids I have been through some major training issues with this poor pup but so far improvement has been achieved. He is a 6 month old gsd from working lines, he is a ball of energy. Extremely high prey drive as well, according to his temperment test. He has gone through the peeing in the crate, due to abuse before we got him. Although he does still pee in the crate we rarely use a crate. Have found it unnecessary at least for now. This poor pup has had a rough life including a paid pet sitter who beat the heck out of him while we were away. This was three weeks ago and the jerk caused a serious injury to Yukon's shoulder. This shoulder injury meant and has meant no walks, no exercise. Poor pup. I have this week be doing some swimming with him at a pool, and he is at least able to burn some energy but his time is limited due to the injury. Problem that has arised and not to the dogs fault is that he is becoming really rough with the kids. I have two toddlers and my 2 year old has been able to end the hassel by hitting the dog or kicking him. Not a good solution and it has been stopped by me. I do not approve of kids hitting or kicking animals; but it has worked for her with Yukon. But my oldest is 3 years old and she is very shy so she curls up and the dog jumps on her. I sure do realize that this is a pup with a ton of energy, and no way of releasing the energy. I never leave the kids unattended with the dog. I have started keeping a leash on Yukon when inside so I am able to grab the leash when he charges at the kids. Is there anything else I can do to teach him to play nice? Before this injury Yukon was getting hours and hours of ball, frisbie fetch games and he never ever bothered the kids. He was to tired and as soon as he can start exercising again, I will tire him out but in the mean time any ideas?

09-09-2005, 10:50 AM	#3 (permalink)
Kade 9 months old?! Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 903 Rep Power: 89	I would definitely do obedience class and also do everything in your power to establish the kids as higher-ranking pack members. They eat first. They are greeted first and talked to first by anyone who comes into the room. Teach them a simple hand signal like "down" or "sit" and have them be the ones to call for a behavior before the dog is fed, watered, or gets a toy. (Edited to add: where does the dog sleep? If not in a crate, I would get one and implement it.) Keep them separated, and keep the dog on a leash until he gets it. Think about a training lead (tied onto you) so he doesn't see the leash as interactive. Don't speak to him, just have the leash be his cue to follow you around the house. The dog needs to feel "bossed around" for a while until he gets that it's about you, not about him. At which point he will feel very comforted. Do it until it's done. The alternative is not worth it!
	__________________ "You come home, the dog throws itself at you. 'Where have you been? You've been so long. I missed you, missed you, missed you. I love you, love you, love you. What's in the bag? Something for me? Oh, let me lick your ear. Oh, let me chew your gloves. You're home!''' -- Pam Brown All About Winston

09-09-2005, 11:11 AM	#4 (permalink)
dollface 4 Boston Terriers Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canada Saskatchewan Posts: 903 Rep Power: 101	I agree basic obedience.... You can have your children feed him at meal times, but always make him work for his food.. Before they feed him have him sit and wait, put food down then give ok command so he can eat. Next time make him lay down, but he does not get his food till he does what is told. Only give a command once and make him sit or laydown, by putting him in the sit/down position... I take it he should no these commands.... Since you have him on leash I take it he goes every where you go, which makes obedience training easy to learn. if your washing dishes you could put him in a down and make him wait till your done before releasing him. Stop everynow and then release praise and put him in a sit ect... Allow the kids to come and pet him and put him in a down so he is calm ect... He sees your children as a playmate, he has to see them as much more then that and thats where feeding him ect comes in... Having them do things for him helps loads.... best of luck
	__________________ The only thing worse then a fool Is the person that argue's with one A dog is only as smart as their owner

09-09-2005, 12:57 PM	#9 (permalink)
Kade 9 months old?! Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 903 Rep Power: 89	I do feel bad for the pup! All that energy and no place to burn it. Does he have some really tough chew toys? That's a good way to burn energy. Training and working their little minds also tires them out. You're a champ to do this with two young kids! Honestly it sounds like it would be easier to contain the kids than the dog, LOL. But I think you'll have some luck with the kids commanding him and feeding him. Do you have hand signals? If they can't say the words, they could definitely learn the gestures. Keep in mind, the results may not be immediate but everything adds up in a puppy's brain. The more you repeat procedures that establish the children as dominant, the more he will respect them. Be sure he sees them eating before he eats, they go through doorways first, etc. Layer by layer he will come to see them as the bosses.
	__________________ "You come home, the dog throws itself at you. 'Where have you been? You've been so long. I missed you, missed you, missed you. I love you, love you, love you. What's in the bag? Something for me? Oh, let me lick your ear. Oh, let me chew your gloves. You're home!''' -- Pam Brown All About Winston

09-09-2005, 01:08 PM	#11 (permalink)
Kade 9 months old?! Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 903 Rep Power: 89	Sounds like it! Sweet little guy.
	__________________ "You come home, the dog throws itself at you. 'Where have you been? You've been so long. I missed you, missed you, missed you. I love you, love you, love you. What's in the bag? Something for me? Oh, let me lick your ear. Oh, let me chew your gloves. You're home!''' -- Pam Brown All About Winston

09-09-2005, 10:46 AM	#2 (permalink)
calgal My Yorkster kids! Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: central ca. coast Posts: 6,780 Rep Power: 229	Right now he sounds out of control because he isn't sure where he ranks in the pack, so he's doing all the things that come naturally to him in order to find his place. You need to take him to obedience classes for starters. I'm so sorry this poor pup got off to a very bad start. Now he has to learn to trust.

09-09-2005, 11:15 AM	#5 (permalink)
YK Shepherd Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 449 Rep Power: 0	He does sleep in a crate when we are away but when we are home I have a puppy proofed room for him only when we do not have our eye on him. He has hugh anxieties towards the crate from being kept in one 24/7 as a young pup. The litter was taken from mom at 4 weeks of age and all of them throwen into one small crate. They stayed in that crate until 9 weeks old which was when I bought him. They were never allowed out of the crate not even to walk. He could hardly walk when we brought him home. So we do try and avoid the crate as much as possible. His reaction to it is he pees in it and then rolls in the pee. We of course do not discipline because it is not his fault but it is a stinky mess to clean up and it is avoidable to a small extent. He has done all the basic and advanced obedience classes and done well. He is such a little fire ball and before his injury he was fine because we exercised him alot. Now without the exercise his mind is running wild for things to do. Cannot blame the dog here either. The swimming he does really is not even close to enough to burn off that energy. Again not the dogs fault, he cannot help it when he is not recieving appropriate exercise and I cannot offer apropriate exercise for another 2 weeks. Then back to slowly adding in the exercise. I believe things will improve when he gets to run and play some. It must be aweful to have to contain so much energy and not be allowed to play.

09-09-2005, 11:55 AM	#7 (permalink)
GSD Herding dogs Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: WI Posts: 1,133 Rep Power: 138	Sounds like exercising will get him back to no problems again. Its a good idea to have the kids make him work for his food and then feed him and things like that, although I'm not sure this is a rank issue more so than just a " i need to release some energy and play issue" but it can only help and won't hurt. Swimming is always great exercise when running and walking are out of the question. If you don't mind could you PM me the breeder that you got your dog from. I'm interested in who would keep such a fine working animal in such deplorable conditions. Thank you

09-09-2005, 01:05 PM	#10 (permalink)
YK Shepherd Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 449 Rep Power: 0	Hey never thought of that yes he knows his hand signals very well. We taught them right along with the verbal commands. The kids for sure can do all of those! Thanks sometimes I am dumb. He has alot of toys to chew and more on the way. Every time we go out we come back with new toys. He is a spoiled boy for sure. He likes his hugh rawhide bone the best; he just has problems going through doorways with it. I will try and get a picture of him with that thing trying to pass through doorways it is funny. He has a follow up vet appointment on Mon and I am hoping he will be allowed to start some walking because he seems to not being showing any lameness now. Fingers crossed for him anyway. Really I think considering his life he is being a super good doggy.

09-10-2005, 11:18 AM	#13 (permalink)
sammy herding dog lover Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: western canada Posts: 1,089 Rep Power: 113	My dog used to pee in his crate when we got him. It's very common in dogs who were kept in a crate for long periods and therefore HAD to go in a crate. I cleaned the crate out really well and then started feeding him his two meals a day in his crate--it worked like a charm. He quit peeing in it right away. I don't feed him in his crate anymore. I think I only did it for a week or maybe even 5 days. Might be an idea to try-- with a dog you need to supervise it's handy to be able to crate them for short periods without having to deal with a big clean up afterwards-or feeling badly that you're making the dog miserable- especially when you have two kids keeping you busy. I was also told (by my trainer) that it would be a good idea to get him used to the crate so he lost his bad association with it. That way if he had to be in a crate at agility/ obedience trials or at the vet or when he's being babysat etc etc it wouldn't traumatize him. So I started crating him every day for a few minutes while I was at home. I gave him a favorite bone or stuffed kong to chew while he was in there. He now happily goes in his crate and all his fear of it is gone. It's been very handy for us. Good luck with Yukon. I'm glad you are so committed to helping him overcome his past hurts

09-10-2005, 11:36 AM	#14 (permalink)
flyndog Unleash The Possibilities Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Marfa, TX Posts: 3,969 Rep Power: 183	YK, according to your post here, http://www.globalpaw.com/thread7774.html this is not just a routine "rough play with kids" issue. Your dog has known aggression issues. I'm glad you are working with him and seeking help. What happened to the trainer or behavior consultant you mentioned in the other thread? An internet forum is a good place for support, but you should be taking advice from a real life behavior consultant who is in a position to understand all the nuances of your case. Kit
	__________________ mARFa Dog Training and Behavior

09-10-2005, 11:45 AM	#15 (permalink)
YK Shepherd Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 449 Rep Power: 0	The behavioralist evaluated the dog in 4 hours, yes 4 hours. HMM interesting. Sent Yukon home and said he needed to be isolated from the kids and slowely desensitized from his fear biting. So not much help there and the trainers that are close to me have all agreed before meeting Yukon that PTS is the only option. That is not even fair because they never even met the dog. So I am doing what I can with what I have and considering maybe joinging a club in Montreal about 3 hours away. The people there think it would be great for Yukon and me and give us the chance to gain confidence together.

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