? on what to do when schedule is broken

[Gerald]

Rocky is on a schedule that has been pretty consistent for the past week. We have only had him a week, and what we do is a 6AM bathroom/feeding/bathroom and toss in another bathroom break ... the same goes for lunch and after work.

Well this morning it was my G/F's turn to take him out; generally I do the morning and lunch times and she is more involved in the evening. She said that he didn't eat this morning and what he did instead was sleep some more, but he had been asleep for hours! Therefore his cycle is now broken, he got no morning meal and he didn't #2 for us like he usually does in the morning. When I got home today he did his business in the crate. In addition after his meal he wouldn't go #2 for me, and we were out there for as long as my lunch hour allowed.

I'm concerned b/c I want to keep him on the same schedule, and I'm now expecting him to go #2 again in his crate because it will be 5 hours until we get off work. Generally he has an accident, and there isn't much we can do about this b/c of our work schedule. It's just frustrating b/c we were doing so well.

Anyways, what should we do? I'm assuming just try to get back on track this evening? In addition, we are going camping this weekend, so things are going to be very different, will a few days of change cause us a major setback?

- Gerald

[Jamilupine]

We personally did house breaking with Lucy on a VERY irregular schedule when Lucy was only 2 1/2 months - we took an eight day road trip and every day was different. For Lucy, it didn't seem to matter much, she's been doing very well (minus the accident last night because she just sat thier quietly at the door while I was in the other room and didn't know she needed out!). So, I would just do the best you can - try to keep track of when he should have to go and do your best to get back on schedule. As for camping - just have fun with Rocky! What a wonderful adventure! Out there he will be able to go outside a lot - make sure he gets lots of praise for being good and going outside.

As for the accidents in the crate - I would strongly suggest trying to avoid those. From what I heard if they learn to go in thier crate it is harder to house break them. It might be better on your schedule to confine the dog to a play pen with the ground covered in newspapers (or puppy pads) until Rocky can hold it longer in his crate. That's my suggestion. How old is Rocky?

[Gerald]

I was thinking about trying to do some sort of play pen. My apt is only one bedroom. I have a way to maybe create something that goes between the bedroom, bathroom, and living room. I can close three doors to each entrance ways to those areas and create a "room" where my closet is located in that hallway.

Rocky is 11 weeks old, so I know he cannot hold his bladder that long. I also thought about trying to do some kind of doggy daycare or dog walker but that could cost some serious $$.

I'm also afraid that if we put down paper in the possible play pen area that he would tear it up and I'd have a mess of torn paper and bathroom accidents. He usually only has one accident in the crate between lunch and when I get home after work. But as you say, it is best to avoid them altogether.

Any other thoughts?

[Jamilupine]

You are probably right in that the Rocky will most likely tear up the paper! If you can close Rocky into a room with floors that aren't carpeted, that would be best. There are things called "puppy pads" which look kinda like diapers, but are flat. You can put those down instead of paper. I think they are more absorbant that paper too. I suggest using a bathroom if you can - I also live in a one bedroom apartment, so I understand how hard it is to find a puppy place! When I first got lucy and she could't hold it very long, I used to close her into the bathroom. I would leave her food, water, paper taped to the floor, toys, and her crate. Then I closed the toilet, and double checked that the child proofed cabinets were secured. She never chewed anything up in there, but it is a possibility if they are left out like that. So, that's the best suggestion I can give.

Yeah, I looked into doggie day care - WOAH! It was expensive! Good luck, maybe others will have some other advice for you.

[Libelle]

One thing to make sure is his crate is not too roomy right now. He should have enough room to lie down, stand up and turn around comfortably, but no more than that. Most dogs do NOT like to go to the bathroom where they sleep, but will do it in the crate if there's extra room. Block off the back of the crate to keep him from using it as a bathroom, if he has too much room

You're on the right track with the schedule! It is the key ingredient to success in house training. As for him not going #2, you have to keep him out there until he DOES do it...lol...you can also clean up his mess with a rag, and place the rag outdoors where you would ideally like him to go, and take him there for his bathroom breaks every time you go out. He will learn to associate the smell with going in that spot.

At 11 weeks, he should be able to hold his bladder for a few hours. Be sure you are cleaning his crate and bedding thoroughly with a mild cleaner that does not contain any ammonia, as this smells like urine to dogs. A quick spray of a vinegar and water solution after cleaning also helps neutralize the scent and deter him from going again.

Good luck!

[mrsgrubby]

I totally agree with Jami. Five hours is too long to expect him to hold it. Putting him in the bathroom sounds like the lesser of two evils to me.

[Gerald]

I'm really perplexed on what to do about the crate situation and the eliminations in there. He usually only goes in his crate during the 5 hour timeframe when I am at work. I thought about doing my lunches maybe a little later, so I'm there at noon, and leave him in the crate a little before 1. That would cut down the times to about 4 hours. Does that sound reasonable?

My only concern with the bathroom is that it is VERY small. I mean, super small. The crate would take up just about the whole floor space I have for the bathroom. The alternative I have to that is the kitchen. I have tiled floors and it is a very narrow space that is more long than wide. The floor space leads to a door which is the room for my washer/dryer, also very small. I could put up a gate at the entrance of my kitchen area, and put puppy pads closer to the door. He would have a lot more space that he does now in the crate.

If I did that, would I eliminate the crate altogether or just use this method until he is older and can hold it longer in the crate? My preference is for him to be in the crate but I am very open to options.

Thanks!

- Gerald

[Kade]

Winston was always kept in an ex-pen (a metal gate 16' long that can be folded into a number of shapes and sizes), with access to his crate. From the very beginning, he associated his pen with his crate as far as not wanting to go potty in it. But if allowed more freedom, he would go to the bathroom on the floor if the urge struck.

Four hours sounds reasonable. Honestly, I wouldn't worry too much about keeping an exact schedule, because he's growing so fast that his routine will change quickly. A regular schedule is admirable, but not completely necessary if it means driving yourself crazy.

The kitchen sounds to me like your best choice. Just be careful not to use any harsh chemical cleaners on surfaces he may lick or chew.

[Jamilupine]

I used to just put Lucy in the bathroom when I thought the time I was gone was too long for her to hold it in the crate (most of the time with the crate, but not always). I think it is okay for you to put him in the bathroom or kitchen without the crate if there isn't enough room. Remember that this is a temparary fix in order to prevent Rocky from emliminating in his crate. Once your pup can hold it through the night, he SHOULD be able to hold it for four hours during the day - lucy stays in her crate for 4 -4 1/2 hours without accidents and makes it through the night regularly. Then you can switch to crating during the day. Does that answer the question about the crate? If not, let me know. These are, of course, just my opinions!

[Barrett]

How big is your puppy and how big will he get? I know some people that actually buy a huge crate and make one area of it a potty place using puppy pads. This way puppy can relieve himself in one corner and can sleep in the other end. This is very contradictory to the usual crate training and is only used because these people have to leave their puppy in the crate for 5 hours while they are at work. The problem is how do you get your pup to stop this behavior once it is older? My friends plan on getting rid of the crate once their small breed dog is older and can be trusted. I am not sure it will work though.

Do you have neighbors that can come and let your puppy out to potty half way between your lunch hour and the time you come home? My husband and I have very flexible schedules for work and we chose opposite days off until our puppies grew up and could be trusted. I know most people don't have such flexible work schedules but this solved our problems of potty training. We didn't see each other very much for many months but our pups came first during training times.

[Gerald]

Well I am happy to report that in the afternoon time yesterday he didn't go in his crate!

His weight is about 10/11 pounds right now. He will probably be around 15 or so. The crate I have for him will be the right size when he is full grown. I asked my vet about the crate issue, and the size; he recommended opening up the entire crate to him and let him sort of grow in to it. So that is what I have done so far. Rocky can go through the night without having an accident, and hopefully by doing closer to 4 hour times between the morning and afternoon he will stop going in the crate while I'm at work.

The puppy daycare - 375 for 20 days, (M-F). I'm going to enroll with them so when I have a work function and cannot make it on lunch he can go there, and perhaps do 1 or 2 days a week for socialization. I'm not 100% on this though.

I figure that if he continues to go in the crate during the afternoon I'll try the kitchen approach with puppy pads. Thanks everyone so far for the advice!!