Issues with crate training..

[aphrael]

We have a 3mo old GSD. He is picking up his obediance very well (sits when I'm not moving and he's on a leash, will stay even with the door open, knows how to heel and does so on a regular basis, etc.)

We started the process of crate training immediatly. Purchased a large crate and put in a divider (which he has since learned how to go under). However, he will continue to use his crate and lie in it.

For example. This morning, I took him out when he indicated he needed to go. We walked for 10 minutes in his known potty area and he did not go. I brought him back inside, and we played until he started sniffing at the carpet. I took him back outside for 20 minutes this time and he still won't go. I bring him in and put him in his crate, and 20 minutes later, he has pooped in it and is lying in it. One day, he did this 4 times (let out, won't go, back in crate, poop/pee).

Our dog obediance instructor suggested making the crate where he can't even stand up for purpose of "if he can't stand up he can't poop or pee" but that seems inhumane.

HELP! I can't imagine him taking the obediance so well, and failing at this! He gets more baths than I do!

[Mom2Many]

What a horrid suggestion from someone who is supposed to know about dogs.

First of all if your GSD shows so much progress with regular training and behavior I would think it isn't that he doesn't know what is expected of him. More like he doesn't really know when he has to go. For a dog or human to realize they have to go potty something called mylinization has to take place on the nerve endings of the rectum. This can take awhile to happen. Intill it does your pup has to urge to go until it is right there. So basically you just need to continue with what you are doing, big praises for going potty outside correctly and no punishment for doing it wrong. The quickest way to potty train is to not allow the pup to have any accidents, if he always gets it right because of your timing he will put two and two together a lot quicker. Hope this helps and gives some insight into why your pup is not getting it yet. Three months is awful young to expect a pup to be accident free.

[Jamilupine]

I suggestion I've heard a lot and that I think would work well is to record the times he eats, drinks, and eliminates. Then look for a pattern. This will help you prevent accidents. Also, this sounds kinda gross, but look at his anus opening (techincal term?) - it enlarges right before he has to go. We used to walk around looking at Lucy's butt in order to determine when she needed to go! Funny mental picture, no?

Edit to add:
And he's only three months - He's young. Give him some time to mature and develop and he'll get the hang of it. Mom2many is right on about him not knowing he needs to go until RIGHT before he goes. He's still growing and learning.

[Mom2Many]

Whenever my grandma would give me grief about potty training my boys (human) I would have to laugh. She would say, "I had your mother and aunt trained by 15 months"...better scenario, she had herself trained to put them on the potty at the right time...constantly. So instead of her training my mom and aunt, she trained herself!

That's pretty much what you have to do with a puppy. Train yourself to recognize the signs, the journaling of what goes in and when can really help you determine an appropriate schedule for getting him out on time.

[Shalva]

Here is the article that I give my puppy people......
the crate is too big for your puppy... you can either buy a divider or use cardboard boxes to pack the back.... make it small enough for your puppy to stand. lie down and sit.... no bigger.....
as he grows make the crate bigger..... I think you misunderstood what your trainer meant or she didn't explain it very well.....
I have put two articles here one on crate training and one on housebreaking..... while you didn't ask about housebreaking they sometimes go hand in hand..... hope this helps. Remember that these articles are written with retrievers in mind as that is what I have but the information is not breed specific.
good luck
s
MOD EDIT: Shiva, that is great information. We are always looking for articles, but please submit your articles to the article forum. A thread is just not the proper venue. Threads tend to "disappear" after a few days of misuse and good information should be shared with others who will need it. Be sure and read the article guidelines before submitting. Thanks.

[Barrett]

Do you use a command like "go potty"? That should help him associate the act of going potty with a command and then praise...." good potty" when he is finished. I always used a high value treat like tiny cut up pieces of hotdog just for going potty. You can slowly phase out the treats as your pup gets older. It's good that you keep him on a leash but try walking him in circles until he goes, even it it takes an hour. Then you can let him off for play time the second he finishes. If you give him 20 minutes of super fun play time right when he is done it might make him do his duty faster because he knows fun time is coming as soon as he does what you want.

[Novel]

My only addition is, and a rule that has always worked for us, when he indicates he needs to go outside, do so, but do NOT come back in until he has gone. This means, be prepared to be out there awhile, especially until he gets it. I take a book and dress warm! He's not going to make the connection about going outside until he does it consistently and he is praised for it. If he goes outside, and doesn't go, and you take him back in, he has no idea why he was out there in the first place. It will take patience on your part, but it will not take more than a few times for him to figure it out.
Like Mom2Many said, he may not know he has to go out, so by sitting outside and waiting, he has no option of going in the wrong place, because you are outside. As a puppy he will have to go eventually, the longest I've been outside is an hour, but you can take a chair, a book, and have him on lead in the potty area, and get ready with treats and praise when he does his business.

[Gerald]

Something that I notice is that after I feed Rocky he has to go almost right away. What is your schedule like? Do you notice any trends on when he has to go?

My schedule is 5:30ish - pee/eat/poop - 7:30ish pee then we are off to work. I come home for lunch around 11:30 - pee/eat/poop - same for after work around 5:15 PM. Then around 7-8 he has to poop again. I keep rocky on this schedule M-F.

When he was about 3 months he was still going in the crate, especially b/c his afternoon time was about 5 hours or so in the crate until I came home from work. But as he is approaching 4 months now, the accidents in the crate are few and far between. Just keep on doing what you are doing, and I'm sure things will work out