training opinions please

zookeeper · 10-27-2005, 12:34 PM

Hi all,
We just got our new baby! She's a standard poodle x with lab for sure and a bit of border collie maybe - in short a mutt and we love her! She's 10 weeks old and I'd like to put her into a puppy class in a few weeks. The classes close to us use clickers for training. I really don't know anything about them and am a little sceptical. Does anyone know anything about training puppies with or without clickers? I'd sure like some opinions. Thank you, thank you!

flyndog · 10-27-2005, 02:49 PM

I think you'll find that it is a fun way to teach you dog all sorts of new behaviors. What part of the training are you skeptical about?

zookeeper · 10-27-2005, 03:04 PM

I'm just not sure I like the idea of the dog responding to the clicker instead of to my voice. I also don't want to have to carry a clicker with me forever so that the dog will do what I ask. I'm not sure that's how it works but it's the way I understand it.

flyndog · 10-27-2005, 03:18 PM

You won't have to carry a clicker with you forever. The clicker does not make the dog do what you ask. The clicker is only a mechanical marker that marks the exact moment the dog has performed a behavior that earns him a treat. When the dog is reliably doing the behavior (sit for example) you add the command (cue) Sit to the behavior. The dog learns that when you say the word "Sit" that means you want him to put his butt on the floor. You don't use the clicker to make him sit. In fact, you would have no reason to ever use the clicker to teach the dog to sit again, once he learned to sit on command. The click is more precise and consistent than your voice, which can vary in pitch, tone and speed. That's the down and dirty of clicker training. Visit Karen Pryor's Clickertraining.com for basics. Also, Melissa Alexander's Clickersolutions.com website. Melissa has a yahoo group for clicker trainers and if you join it, you will hear and see some pretty amazing things. Trainers who work with marine mammals or with zoo animals, use clicker training and positive reinforcement. It's pretty hard to put a choke chain on a dolphin and make him perform.

Yet they teach some pretty amazing things. You can do that with your dog, too.

zookeeper · 10-28-2005, 07:23 AM

OK, I wasn't understanding very well. What you say makes sense. Thanks.

Kade · 10-28-2005, 07:55 AM

We've clicker trained our dog and it worked very well. We do "brush-up" sessions with the clicker every now and again, but the tricks he's learned don't require it.

And he is by far the best-behaved dog in his obedience class, and the only one clicker-trained... I think you can achieve the same thing if you are really, really consistent and clear with a word like, "YES!", but the clicker is great tool.

***Carrie*** · 10-28-2005, 11:22 AM

I love clicker training. It's so awesome to see when the dog is really understanding what it was he just did that is what you meant and that he gets a yummy treat and lots of praise. He knows that's coming soon but the click sound is so precise and really marks out the behavior.

For instance, Lyric has had a fairly good heel for a long time, but it hasn't been really clean or precise. He'd lag a little or forge ahead a tad. He knew I meant to be along side me, but didn't know exactly that I wanted his shoulder in line with my leg. So, I took out my clicker and some good treats in my pocket. When he'd heel and he was in almost perfect position, I'd click and treat. Then after a few times, I wouldn't click and treat for almost perfect. He tried harder, thought harder. And he'd get right along side, just perfect. Then I'd click and treat. As long as he stayed just right, I'd c/t often. If he lagged behind, no click, no treat. He figured out very quickly....within minutes where it was he needed to be to get the reward. That click marked it and showed him. Now he understands what exactly "heel" position is and I don't need to click anymore. I just reward. I've used it for many things...tricks included...very helpful with tricks.

sharona1973 · 10-28-2005, 03:41 PM

I wished they had clicker training in regular obedience classes 6 years ago when I took Mishka. She does seem a little envious of Mocha when I am working with him on the clicker....she knows "click=treat"!!

Zookeeper, I think you will be pleasantly surprised. Mocha just started puppy class last week and they use clickers too. At first I was worried that Mocha would be confused with all the clickers going off in the room, but the trainer said that your dog will recognize your clicker sound and not get distracted...and she was right. Mocha zoned in on the clicker and did just fine....even with 10 other dogs in the room. And as others have said, you don't rely on the clicker forever. In our class, we are taught hand signals to go with the command too.

Give it a go...it will be great!

***Carrie*** · 10-28-2005, 03:46 PM

Quote:

I wished they had clicker training in regular obedience classes 6 years ago when I took Mishka. She does seem a little envious of Mocha when I am working with him on the clicker....she knows "click=treat"!!

Well, just so Mishka (is that a Czech name?) doesn't get too bent out of shape, you could still teach her some new tricks or commands with the clicker. It's never too late to learn. And they do seem to have more fun...they're more responsive, I noticed when I use a clicker. It just gets them reved up. LOL.

sharona1973 · 10-28-2005, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrie

Well, just so Mishka (is that a Czech name?) doesn't get too bent out of shape, you could still teach her some new tricks or commands with the clicker. It's never too late to learn. And they do seem to have more fun...they're more responsive, I noticed when I use a clicker. It just gets them reved up. LOL.

I do need to try to do that. Poor Mishka...I got Mocha so that she wouldn't be lonely and they do play a lot, but Mocha does command a lot of my attention especially because he's a puppy. I must not neglect Mishka. Actually Mishka was named as such because it was 1) the name of my favorite coffee shop in college...Mishka's Cafe and 2) it's supposedly Russian for "little one" and since a lot of people mistake shelties for mini-collies, I thought it was appropriate!

zookeeper · 10-28-2005, 07:48 PM

Thanks you all. I'm feeling much better about it now. Actually, I can't wait to start. It will be so much fun to see what Brie can do. She's such a smartie. I've never had a mutt before - we grew up with purebreds. I'm liking the whole mutt thing.

zookeeper · 10-28-2005, 07:48 PM

Thanks you all. I'm feeling much better about it now. Actually, I can't wait to start. It will be so much fun to see what Brie can do. She's such a smartie. I've never had a mutt before - we grew up with purebreds. I'm liking the whole mutt thing.

zookeeper · 10-28-2005, 07:50 PM

Ops. obviously I need help with more than puppies. Didn't mean to post twice.

sharona1973 · 10-28-2005, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zookeeper

Thanks you all. I'm feeling much better about it now. Actually, I can't wait to start. It will be so much fun to see what Brie can do. She's such a smartie. I've never had a mutt before - we grew up with purebreds. I'm liking the whole mutt thing.

I grew up with purebreds too...and I'm really liking my little mutt!

Have fun with your little one!

zookeeper · 10-31-2005, 09:38 PM

I heard from the lady who will be running the puppy class I've signed us up for (since you all convinced me of the benefits of clickers) and now I'm back to having my doubts. She wants me not to feed Brie on the day of the class so that she's really hungry when we get there. I don't think I can not feed her all day! Do you suppose I could just feed her breakfast and then not give her lunch or supper. Or do I really have to starve the poor thing in order to train her? Oh, this training thing is going to be the death of me!

10-27-2005, 12:34 PM	#1 (permalink)
zookeeper Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 125 Rep Power: 62	training opinions please Hi all, We just got our new baby! She's a standard poodle x with lab for sure and a bit of border collie maybe - in short a mutt and we love her! She's 10 weeks old and I'd like to put her into a puppy class in a few weeks. The classes close to us use clickers for training. I really don't know anything about them and am a little sceptical. Does anyone know anything about training puppies with or without clickers? I'd sure like some opinions. Thank you, thank you!

10-27-2005, 02:49 PM	#2 (permalink)
flyndog Unleash The Possibilities Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Marfa, TX Posts: 3,969 Rep Power: 183	I think you'll find that it is a fun way to teach you dog all sorts of new behaviors. What part of the training are you skeptical about?
	__________________ mARFa Dog Training and Behavior

10-27-2005, 03:18 PM	#4 (permalink)
flyndog Unleash The Possibilities Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Marfa, TX Posts: 3,969 Rep Power: 183	You won't have to carry a clicker with you forever. The clicker does not make the dog do what you ask. The clicker is only a mechanical marker that marks the exact moment the dog has performed a behavior that earns him a treat. When the dog is reliably doing the behavior (sit for example) you add the command (cue) Sit to the behavior. The dog learns that when you say the word "Sit" that means you want him to put his butt on the floor. You don't use the clicker to make him sit. In fact, you would have no reason to ever use the clicker to teach the dog to sit again, once he learned to sit on command. The click is more precise and consistent than your voice, which can vary in pitch, tone and speed. That's the down and dirty of clicker training. Visit Karen Pryor's Clickertraining.com for basics. Also, Melissa Alexander's Clickersolutions.com website. Melissa has a yahoo group for clicker trainers and if you join it, you will hear and see some pretty amazing things. Trainers who work with marine mammals or with zoo animals, use clicker training and positive reinforcement. It's pretty hard to put a choke chain on a dolphin and make him perform. Yet they teach some pretty amazing things. You can do that with your dog, too.
	__________________ mARFa Dog Training and Behavior

10-28-2005, 07:55 AM	#6 (permalink)
Kade 9 months old?! Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 903 Rep Power: 89	We've clicker trained our dog and it worked very well. We do "brush-up" sessions with the clicker every now and again, but the tricks he's learned don't require it. And he is by far the best-behaved dog in his obedience class, and the only one clicker-trained... I think you can achieve the same thing if you are really, really consistent and clear with a word like, "YES!", but the clicker is great tool.
	__________________ "You come home, the dog throws itself at you. 'Where have you been? You've been so long. I missed you, missed you, missed you. I love you, love you, love you. What's in the bag? Something for me? Oh, let me lick your ear. Oh, let me chew your gloves. You're home!''' -- Pam Brown All About Winston

10-28-2005, 11:22 AM	#7 (permalink)
*Carrie* Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: north panhandle of Idaho Posts: 7,419 Rep Power: 286	I love clicker training. It's so awesome to see when the dog is really understanding what it was he just did that is what you meant and that he gets a yummy treat and lots of praise. He knows that's coming soon but the click sound is so precise and really marks out the behavior. For instance, Lyric has had a fairly good heel for a long time, but it hasn't been really clean or precise. He'd lag a little or forge ahead a tad. He knew I meant to be along side me, but didn't know exactly that I wanted his shoulder in line with my leg. So, I took out my clicker and some good treats in my pocket. When he'd heel and he was in almost perfect position, I'd click and treat. Then after a few times, I wouldn't click and treat for almost perfect. He tried harder, thought harder. And he'd get right along side, just perfect. Then I'd click and treat. As long as he stayed just right, I'd c/t often. If he lagged behind, no click, no treat. He figured out very quickly....within minutes where it was he needed to be to get the reward. That click marked it and showed him. Now he understands what exactly "heel" position is and I don't need to click anymore. I just reward. I've used it for many things...tricks included...very helpful with tricks.
	__________________ Get more out of Global Paw. Check out these great features. Global Paw Book Club -- Art Classes -- Woof Review As a member of Global paw staff my opinions are not necessarily those of the website or the owner.

10-27-2005, 03:04 PM	#3 (permalink)
zookeeper Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 125 Rep Power: 62	I'm just not sure I like the idea of the dog responding to the clicker instead of to my voice. I also don't want to have to carry a clicker with me forever so that the dog will do what I ask. I'm not sure that's how it works but it's the way I understand it.

10-28-2005, 07:23 AM	#5 (permalink)
zookeeper Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 125 Rep Power: 62	OK, I wasn't understanding very well. What you say makes sense. Thanks.

10-28-2005, 03:41 PM	#8 (permalink)
sharona1973 Proud mom of Mishka&Mocha Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Shreveport, Louisiana Posts: 161 Rep Power: 66	I wished they had clicker training in regular obedience classes 6 years ago when I took Mishka. She does seem a little envious of Mocha when I am working with him on the clicker....she knows "click=treat"!! Zookeeper, I think you will be pleasantly surprised. Mocha just started puppy class last week and they use clickers too. At first I was worried that Mocha would be confused with all the clickers going off in the room, but the trainer said that your dog will recognize your clicker sound and not get distracted...and she was right. Mocha zoned in on the clicker and did just fine....even with 10 other dogs in the room. And as others have said, you don't rely on the clicker forever. In our class, we are taught hand signals to go with the command too. Give it a go...it will be great!

10-28-2005, 07:48 PM	#11 (permalink)
zookeeper Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 125 Rep Power: 62	Thanks you all. I'm feeling much better about it now. Actually, I can't wait to start. It will be so much fun to see what Brie can do. She's such a smartie. I've never had a mutt before - we grew up with purebreds. I'm liking the whole mutt thing.

10-28-2005, 07:48 PM	#12 (permalink)
zookeeper Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 125 Rep Power: 62	Thanks you all. I'm feeling much better about it now. Actually, I can't wait to start. It will be so much fun to see what Brie can do. She's such a smartie. I've never had a mutt before - we grew up with purebreds. I'm liking the whole mutt thing.

10-28-2005, 07:50 PM	#13 (permalink)
zookeeper Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 125 Rep Power: 62	Ops. obviously I need help with more than puppies. Didn't mean to post twice.

10-31-2005, 09:38 PM	#15 (permalink)
zookeeper Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 125 Rep Power: 62	I heard from the lady who will be running the puppy class I've signed us up for (since you all convinced me of the benefits of clickers) and now I'm back to having my doubts. She wants me not to feed Brie on the day of the class so that she's really hungry when we get there. I don't think I can not feed her all day! Do you suppose I could just feed her breakfast and then not give her lunch or supper. Or do I really have to starve the poor thing in order to train her? Oh, this training thing is going to be the death of me!

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