Lab puppy hip concern

[momof2nmp]

I take my puppy to an off-leash dog park every morning to make sure she gets exercised and socialized with other dogs. When she is there, she plays hard with the other dogs. Everyone gets along great and the same group of people meet there at the same time everyday so I know who I feel quite comfortable with everyone and their dogs.

I noticed the other day that my pup (8.5 months) had trouble walking after getting up from sleeping in a tight corner. After about her third step she was fine. This has happened about four times (that I've noticed) over the last few days. She can do stairs just fine and runs beautifully. Can dogs get stiff after sleeping in a cramped corner or is this perhaps an injury that could have happened at the park. I'm also worried about HD since this is so prevalent in their breed. I got my dog from a very reputable breeder and she is not over weight. I met her parents and their hips were in great condition. Any advice?

[kazkirkpatrick]

When cooper got up in the morning or after a nap, sometimes he walks like an old man for a step or two. He also sits very slowly sometimes. He also never lies down froggy style. I took him to the vet and told her the symptoms. She said these are all classic signs of the onset of hip dysplasia that usually people miss if they arent in close contact with their dogs. Usually people only see the advanced stages (difficulty walking)

Then she xrayed cooper....
He has moderate to severe hip dysplaysia with sclerosis in his spine and arthritis. He was 2yrs old at the time of the diagnosis.

I would recommend you take your puppy to the vet and ask. Cooper is now on supplements to slow the degredation until he is rexrayed in january for his hip replacement evaluation. The earlier you start the supplements the better.

Good luck and I hope you dont have to go through what Im going through right now.

[TribalRats]

Oh my gosh I am so sorry to hear about both of your dogs having these problems.
I think the advice you have been given is sound advice. I would make an apt with your vet and have your pup checked. Better safe then sorry for sure!
Good luck and let us know.

[momof2nmp]

Thanks for your input. I'm going to call my vet on Monday to make an appointment. I'm really starting to worry. I think I might even call the breeder today and tell her about Ruby's symptoms and find out if any other pup in the litter experienced the same thing.

[Shalva]

call your breeder....

if you are not seeing symptoms on a regular basis and only have seen this once then I wouldn't worry....
his leg probably fell asleep.....

My girl lays froggy style all the time and her hips were OFA'd at a good..... so I wouldn't worry about that.....

the fact is that when Connor was 6 mos we were told he was dysplastic... he was ofa'd at 2 and was a good

When Kae was a year we were told she would also be dysplastic she was ofa'd at a good....

they are fine....

his leg could have just fallen asleep ... happens to people all the time....
he might have a little panosteitis going on... another common problem in larger breeds....

go to the vet if you watn but talk to your breeder FIRST
there are some things you trust thevet for and other things you talk to your breeder about... this is a breeder issue..... start there.... see what she says... and go from there .
s

[Barrett]

I always think it's a good idea to see a vet if you are worried about anything. You will get quick definet answers. If you call your breeder I hope they would tell you to see a vet since no one can diagnose anything over the phone.

[momof2nmp]

I did call my breeder yesterday. She was quite helpful. She also said that she didn't think it could be a displastic hip as her lineage x-rayed great for this. She also said that it doesn't necessarily mean that it couldn't pop up down the road. Additionally, her hips at this age are all cartilage and the bones are not yet developed so we couldn't check for HD at this juncture anyway.

My breeder then told me that since I bring her to the dog park everyday to romp that it's possible she could have sustained an injury. She told me to lay low over the next few days and if the limp persisted to call the vet. Apparently, she had a similar experience with one of her pups and it turned out to me nothing but a sprain and it healed up just fine after she was rested for a week or so.

I'm not going to take a chance. I'm going to call my vet today just for my own peace of mind.

Thanks again for everyones input. I find this website an invaluable source for voicing my concerns and I've net chatted with some nice people as passionate about their dogs as I am about mine .

[GreyWolf]

If you are going in to the vet anyway, they could check for an acl tear and also check her patellars.

[Shalva]

I would have told you the same thing.... I never take pups to the vet at the first sign of a limp EVER..... costs a ton of money and generally it eases up in a couple days..... I worry like crazy until then and I spend the whole time second guessing myself about whether I should take them or not... but I have to say I am tired of paying for xrays that show nothing because I was a worry wart....

Your breeder is right.... xrays show nothing at this age... they have no hip sockets to speak of yet ....

Like I said earlier there are things I trust vets for and there are things that I trust my breeders for and unless one of the dogs is on the verge of death and is bleeding or has a bone stuck out... or is clearly not acting right.... I always call my breeder first.... I encourage my puppy folks to call me first as well.... there are things that vets know and there are things that breeders know... and over the years I have learned to trust my (reputable) breeder sometimes more than I trust my vet (and I love my vet) .....
I could tell ya stories....
S

[Shalva]

patellas can't be cleared until a year of age

DONT HAVE THEM TOUCH THE PATELLAS.....

if the patella was luxating you would know it..... I have seen it.... I don't allow anyone to touch a patella on a dog of mine until at least 18 mos. unless I suspect that patella is luxating and this did not sound like a luxating patella.....

the fact is that this dog was lying down..... if this was an acl or patella injury, the dog would have been moving and come up lame, not laying down and that dog would have been in major pain and you would have heard a yelp or other indication of a major injury....

luxating patellas are VERY painful..... you would know if its a luxating patella and the dog would be straightening his leg back to pop the patella back into place. You would see him pull up his leg and yelp when the patella popped out.... a luxating patella means the kneecap is coming off the knee due to loose grooves that hold the knee cap in place OR due to growth.... I had a puppy who had a luxating patella due to growth issues... it resolved at about 18 mos and his knees are now solid..... the more you luxate a patella the looser the patella becomes which is why you don't touch a patella that is not luxating until full growth is completed.

Thes joint issues are sketchy.... and you have to be very careful .... you don't just have your vet manipulate just because .....

If you feel more comfortable having him checked then do so.... but if he is showing no symptoms at this point then its a waste of money.... just watch for symptoms and see if you can isolate when it happens.... but don't touch the patellas.....
yikes.
S

[GreyWolf]

The dog doesn't necessarily need to show extreme (or any) pain for a torn acl. It really depends on the dog's pain tolerance. I've known dogs that have torn ACLs that will still run, jump, and play normally and only favor their leg when getting up or when they readjust their weight on their legs. They are a bit stiff at first but then will go back to doing what they normally do. In many cases, you don't even know that your dog HAS a problem because they can mask it so well.

My Mastiff partially tore his and I was the only one who noticed him favoring it slightly. It was nothing obvious; just me knowing my dog and knowing that something was wrong. He still did all the 'normal' things that he had always done, but every so often he would readjust his leg; which to me looked odd. When I called the vet about it, she said that it was most likely that his leg was asleep or that he layed on it funny and not to worry. My breeder, after hearing my description, said it could be just that, but that it could also be an acl. My breeder's vet manipulated the leg in question, but since my dog doesn't show pain, especially to strangers, the vet couldn't be certain. So, in for surgery to make sure and it WAS a partially torn cruciate with no signs of arthritis yet. Had the artificial ligament replacement done and now (2.5 years later), no limp, no favoring, and no problems. Had I let it alone, the partial could easily have turned into a fully blown cruciate with arthritic changes and made matters worse.

My Mastiff isn't a dog that jumps around or zooms fast and furious. He's a really laid-back Mastiff who thinks playing is a spectator sport. But, because of how big he is, all it takes is hopping off the bed & landing at the wrong angle or slipping on a tile floor. They can damage their cruciates that easily.

Just something to think about.

[Crossfire Bulldogs]

I agree with Greywolf, not all dogs show the outwards signs of pain even with luxating patellas. Pups are especially quick at figuring out how to pop that knee back into place.

In my opinion when in doubt a vet is your best answer and I'm not a fan of waiting a few days when there is an obvious issue, some injuries such as torn ACLs especially can get worse if not treated right away. Why risk the wait? I'd rather have my vet tell me things are fine than later be told " if we would have only seen the dog sooner". If money is an issue perhaps starting a separate savings account for those "doggy emergencies" would be a good idea.

A good veterinarian is not going to manipulate a patella to the point of doing more damage if there is an issue. jmo

[momof2nmp]

What are ACLs?

I took my dog to the vet today. They manipulated her hips and couldn't find anything. Finally, they x-rayed her and her hips turned out to look good.....not great (which is what I wanted to hear) but good. Since I take Ruby to the dog park everyday, the vet told me to lay off of that and walk her for 20 mins twice a day.

The vet seemed to think that she sustained an injury (pulled muscle?) from rough play at the park (she plays hard); she didn't think it was a hip issue. However, she wanted to x-ray her again in about 4 months. At that time, she would like to anesthetize her and place her in positions that would allow her a closer look at the hip sockets.

In the meantime I have peace of mind and as far as the expense goes, I have pet insurance so I'm good in that department, thank goodness.

Any suggestions? You've all been helpful.

[GreyWolf]

ACL stands for anterior cruciate ligament. It's a band of tissue that helps to stabilize the knee. It's a common sports injury in people as well as in dogs. Sudden twists of the leg, like when a dog changes direction, or hyperextending the leg can cause it to tear. I know some people with smaller breed dogs can sometimes 'fix' a partial tear by limiting activity, icing the knee, and using anti-inflammatories. But, for the most part, people opt to have either TPLO done or go for the artificial ligament replacement. We opted to do the artificial as I've heard too many horror stories of Mastiffs having the TPLO done and then having problems after.

In many cases, after a dog has had one acl repaired, the other goes because of the additional weight that is born on the 'good' leg. Thankfully, we did not have that problem as I made sure my dog didn't put his weight on just one leg. I used a sling to help hoist him around for close to 3 months and then took an additional 6 months of just doing swimming, very short walks, and absolutely no stairs or unsupervised activity.

[momof2nmp]

I am going to assume that since Ruby was just at the vet and they checked her out (including moving all of the joints in the legs), she doesn't have a tear. She did not flinch in pain at all during the exam. Would you assume the same?