A rescued 6year old JRT chasing cats

[searer]

I am currently the very happy owner/mistress/companion of a female, very good tempered (no barking, never a nip and no pulling on the leash, chasing, growling, in fact she's very sweet, sociable and genuinely likes all people and most other dogs) and well socialised 7 years-old Jack Russell Terrier dog and of two rescued cats (one female tabby, a male Maine Coon mix, both neutered). The dog and the cats are very friendly toward each other (they sleep together, the tabby accompanies us for walks, we live on a small island in the Venice lagoon, so there are no cars). In the past I have had another female JRT, also very sweet, and some other cats and I never had any problems between them. I understand (from reading books and online forums) that I have been very lucky. Now we (my husband and I) would like to have a second dog and we have been offered a 5 year old unneutered Jack Russell Terrier by a shelter. This dog, that is very cute and rather affectionate, has been abused by his fomer owners: they have admitted to beating him, keeping him in a room for days and shouting and screaming at him. They finally surrendered him for "unsubordination and general disobedience" and because he was biting them. I have had him in my home for a trial day and I recognize that he's completely untrained (he pulls the leash to the point of choking, does not know even elementary commands like Sit or Stay), scared and reactive (he actually bit me when I unvoluntarily moved a rolled newspaper near his head- I did not know he was routinedly beaten with it by his former owners) but he's also very trainable (he learned to Sit and to not pull the leash in about two sittings) and willing to trust people (he let me handle and pet him, came to sit at my feet, was very quiet and steady on the car and on the boat, slept quietly in his crate and generally very happy when we were all together). Plus he rarely barks. He was also very good with my dog, playing well, no competition over food and toys. The main problem for me are the cats: he became very excited just looking at them and tried to chase them (he was on the leash the whole time). The cats were unfazed (they are even too friendly towards dogs) but I was worried. On the advice of my veterinarian I have consulted another vet, specialised in canine behaviour, that has told me rather curtly that no terrier can be trusted near cats, that my own dog is just the exception that proves the rule (but I know other terriers, even Staffordshire and Bull, living peacefully with cats) and that a grown up JRT that has not been socialised as a puppy with cats and possibly with young children ( he has cautioned me against getting pregnant and having children with even my own dog in the house) is a lost cause.
I would really like to try with this dog (I like him very much) and my husband and I have really the resources (plus an house with a walled garden), the experience with the breed and the time (I work at home, my husband teach at university) necessary to train and properly socialise him but we absolutely don't want to put our cats at risk. While the cats have their own cat'door and plenty of high and confortable places both inside the house and in the garden, due to the house plan, it would be impossible to divide permanently our home in two separate (cats' and dogs') areas so they should eventually learn to live peacefully if not amicably together.
Is possible to teach a 6 year old terrier not to chase (or worse) cats ? Any advice would be much appreciated.

[flyndog]

IMO the vet is right. Your home is not the best choice for a JRT that hasn't been socialized around cats. Expectations of the dog living amicably with the rest of your family pets may not be realistic.

It sounds like you have a wonderful family. I'm curious; why do you feel the need to "try with this dog"? Why this particular dog and why now?

[searer]

My first dog was a "rescued" JRT: i was in Scotland visiting some friends when a small fruitbat-like creature came near me and flopped promptly to get her small belly scratched. While I was scratching and cooing (till that moment I was a cat person, liked dogs but i had never even entertained the idea to have one ), I noticed she was very skinny, still a pup and had a large scar on her head so I asked who was the owner and my friend responded "You, if you want her, I am just fostering and she harasses all my dogs (yorkies). She's a JRT you know".

So i took her home in Italy and as I did not know anything on JRT and their peculiar nature (she did not know it either: at my friends'farm she was sleeping in the cat's basket with two red cats), she became a very sociable and obedient dog, living peacefully with the cats and a little amiable bully with the other dogs, at that time I was working in an architecture studio, in the garden of the owner'house, populated with 3 big dogs, a Collie sheperd, an enormous Grand Bouvier Suisse and a Basset Hound and in 10 minutes she was the pack leader (eating first, peeing first, sitting on the sofa and sleeping on the house'owner bed).. She was Daisy the dog a wonderful wonderful dog (family jingle) and i learned from her to be happy, basically naively happy of life (good weather ? perfect for a walk, bad weather ? perfect for cuddling. Food ? always good. Company? always enjoyable, Alone ? always something interesting to do. sleepy? perfect again), and appreciate every moment. She was my companion.

When she died i discovered that I had become a dog person (even if I continue to have cats, all rescued), having a dog is a necessary part of life for me. So I took Ada, my present dog, the last pup of a letter that their owner had to give away before leaving for a long trip above, the smaller and the most spoiled.
This time I did prepare myself, read books and so I was ready (she has received a formal albeit at-home training) but again I was very lucky because she is even more sociable and from the moment she saw my then 7 year old red cat (actually adopted from the street and nursed from Daisy) she fell in love with him, playing and cuddling and licking him. By the way this cat died 2 years ago of cancer and she was unconsolable, trying to take home street cats, that are abundant but not particolarly recommendable in Venice, so we eventually rescued 2 from a shelter.

Then my husband, to whom Ada is pathetically devoted, started to muse that "the new house is larger, we have a bigger garden, we could really have another dog" tapping on my not so secret desires and we began to check shelters.

At the end of July, we were notified by a shelter (in the meantime JRT have become popular in Italy and JRT have started to end up in shelters when they not behave like Wishbone) that they had this 6 year JRT (Rocco, corny name I know) surrendered by his former family and "as he had issues" they wanted to find him experienced owners. We went to visit him and he is, well, in a word he is charming (at least as much as Ada), the moment I put the leash on him he let himself to be petted and got a spark in his eyes (he is also quite dashing, very short legs, a pudding JRT, smart rough coat) with all the rescue people (who did not know anything about JRT besides that they are a "very difficult and peculiar breed") cooing and saying "he has never behaved like this, look HE'S KISSING YOU OMIGOD". I tried to behave rationally so I did checked him on the leash (pulling but not so much), on simple commands (nothing but willing to learn with treats), with my husband (not scared of strange men), with my dog (unconclusive, every male unneutered JRT loves girl JRTs) and lastly in the car (loves the car). So we took him home for a trial (2 hours' trip) and in the car we did have the dreaded newspaper incident and I was bitten but I was not scared or discouraged because 1) he was in a corner, in a strange car, with a strange woman agitating a rolled newspaper near his head 2) he stopped immediately when grabbed on the neck and he was much more scared than me. For the rest of the trip he kept quiet, sleeping and surreptitiously sniffing and licking me and then on the vaporetto (the boat we use as bus here) sniffing and socializing with everybody in sight (i was wary but 2 JRT sitting together are irresistible for most people) again very well behaved. But I was definitely hooked when we arrived at home and he started to roll on the kilim carpet, joyously barking and for the first tme I did have a glimpse of the happy little dog hidden inside this watchful scared creature. I don'think he was ever allowed to be a dog, a normal dog. Minutes later he saw the cats and the rest is history: we have been discussing and researching this matter ever since, he is still in the shelter, a good shelter but still a shelter.
Maybe this is the problem: my dogs have given me so much joy and made me happy and now I know I could make this dog happy, could give him a very good life (I know what he needs, a consistent family life with kind but firm rules and a definite place in the pack with an owner caring for him for a change, so he can be just a dog) and we do want a second dog and he is otherwise perfect, really adorable.
But I feel responsible toward my cats, that we also love very much so I am conflicted, I go on the Pitt Bull Rescue Central http://www.pbrc.net/training_cats.html and learn that even adult Pitt Bulls can be desensitized to cats (of course I don't plan to leave him unattended with the cats or at least not for a long time and certainly not ever if I am not at home, he would be crated in our absence). on the other side a lot of people (including some JRT rescues) say that JRTs can not be trusted with cats. Also, I don't really know if he is really aggressive (or just actively curious as JRT are) toward cats: he was kept mostly at home, in an apartment in Milan, by two old people that took him out for walk rarely and in a city, so he has not certainly had the occasion to hunt or kill and I suspect he did not have so much contact with cats (not many stray cats in Milan, due to car traffic in fact almost none). So all in all is a difficult decision and we do need help and information. Sorry for the long post, i did get carried away

[flyndog]

And the dog bit you. No wonder you love him!

Has the shelter tested the dog with cats? If not, they should. Ask them if you can watch while they test him.

I love terriers. I'm all for saving JRTs. I'm also against dogs who bite humans being released by shelters (there are so many other dogs who don't bite and need to be sheltered and homed). I think all dogs bred to hunt and kill quick-moving, small, furry animals should be cat tested before released to a home with cats. JMO.

Pit bulls were bred to kill dogs. Northern European terriers were bred to kill fast moving furry animals. Similar wiring, but not the same.

It sounds to me like your mind is already made up about this dog.

[searer]

Dear flyndog,
I understand your position but:

the shelters here in Italy do not test the dogs with cats. The "test" was done at my home as when we arrived my cats welcomed us in the front garden and he tried to chase them, barking: he was not pulling as crazy, not choking or anything but not encouraging.
Then I put him in a special confortably set room, on a leash, to feed him and unfortunately the cats came to check him and again he tried to chase them, barking. as soon as the cats disappeared (sauntering, you know how cats are) he calmed and ate his food (so there could be a food defending element here),
The next morning, the same, cats came out in the garden to check on him (they ARE curious) and again he barked and tried to chase them. Honestly he did not go crazy, I could easily restrain him with the leash and he calmed right after but I know it is not promising.

So, no, we can not decide about this dog, we like him, we think we could "do right by him" but we don't want to put our beloved cats at risk or trasform our home in a prison where he would have to be constantly restrained. In that case he would be surely happier as an only dog in a cat-free household.

We are also concerned that in Italy is very difficult to find a good household for this particular dog: experience with the breed, not scared by his issues, with a garden, in a place where he can have all the physical activity he needs: here everybody walk, not only dog owners, I have an average of 2,5 Km everyday between newspaper stand, milk and a little shopping.

At today the shelter has not found anybody else that is suitable, even advertising on the web with a captivating picture etc..

It is true that Pitt Bull and Terrier are "wired" differently but most JRT are bred as pet dogs, and I also wonder if neutering him would make a difference.

Lastly, about biting dogs, I think that many abused dogs, if not retrained respond with fear and biting, to old feared stimulus: a dog routinely beaten (and not trained so he was not punished for infractions, he was just punished) in a strange car, sleeping quietly on the bottom and woken by a strange woman moving the dreaded newspaper on his head, is likely to bite.
It is unpleasant (very, I was bleeding), I certainly don' t like it, I would not leave him alone with anybody else for a long long time but I am not scared (and I am not particuarly starry-eyed about dogs, there are dogs I don't trust at all, for instance my friends'Basset, he has bitten his mistress twice and tried once with me, getting a whack on his behind and a good scolding) and in this I trust my feeling.
I aso don't wish to resign myself and my family to an aggressive dog but I am (reasonably) confident that he is not aggressive, he is reactive and scared and he can be trained through a consistent regime of Nothing Free in Life and Proper Rules (I am Mary Poppinish I know but it works)
But I am not sure that I can do it while restraining him around the cats: too many rules at the same time could overwhelm him completely. what do you think ?

[searer]

As you know, we did agonize on the decision to adopt this dog after our trial day. In the meantime he was in a family owned, small dog pension (a very good place but not a home) and had two rescue volunteers walking and trying to re-educate him and has bitten another visitor. The former owners have also been contacted again and admitted that the dog for the last 3 years was living in a bathroom or on a balcony, walked only twice a day, beaten for soiling and had became ungovernable, growling and biting, so they surrendered him, keeping mum about it.
Armed with the full story, I did try to find in my area a behaviourist willing to work with me both on the behaviour and the cat issues but most of them were quite short in telling me that it was hopeless, the dog should be euthanized, would never be trustworthy even with people etc..The only behaviourist willing to accept the case (he has worked also with rescued dog fighting pitbulls and dogs trained to attack people etc by amateur trainers.. etc..) lived at about 100km and as it would be necessary at least for the first two months to have a minimum of 3 lessons a week, the disruption of any domestic routine (that he said it would be a very important factor in the dog rehabilitation) would be inevitable.
Also he stressed that this dog needed to receive a lot of positive reinforcement, to be praised for the correct things he learns to do instead of being punished for the wrong ones but the presence of cats would
obliged me restrain him almost constantly for the first crucial months.
Also he stated that such a dog could never left alone with them (and it is very difficult to know all the time where both cats are) and possibly be crated every time we were out, even with the cats in another room.
So it wasn't promising or fair toward this dog, my dog and the cats and finally about two weeks ago, after many long discussions, we did decide to not adopt this dog but we were very sad. However, in the process we have become friend with one of the volunteer of the shelter and she has phoned me today to tell me that just one week ago she was contacted about the dog by a very good family, mother and adult daughter, very experienced about dogs (they had a rescued Dobermann and a Yorkshire terrier, living together, with the Dobermann dying at 16 years and the yorkie at 20), they came to visit and promptly fell in love with the dog, that on the second visit tried also promptly to bite the daughter. Not only they were not deterred (even if the shelter insisted on a cautionary waiting period of a week) but they are coming tomorrow with a behaviourist in tow, possibly to taking him home. So if it goes well, it would be a kind of happy end for this dog. Even if we knew we were doing the right thing, we did feel guilty about him. Also, this week we have been contacted by another small rescue group (the hell with mailing list) about another 6 year old JRT, neutered, not aggressive and good with cats (he lived in the same room with a cat for 2 months, both not crated, the cat belonged to the shelter's vet and the dogs was staying at the clinic, the vet has confirmed that he did not even look at the cat) buth with a kind of health problem (he has no teeth), but this is another story, hopefully another happy one and I will post about it in the proper forum.
We thank you for all your advice, it has given us food for thought and it has been very helpful

[rmci]

I commend you for wanting to help the JRT, but it sounds like that one was not meant for you. As you see by second call, there are many more dogs that need help. You can't help them all, but you can pick one that will fit in with your family and live a happy life

[sammy]

I think it's easy to fall in love with a dog and the idea of "saving" it. I agree with the vet and with Flyndog. I also think your first allegiance has to be to the animals you already own. You are interested in this dog- don't be so certain you're his one and only hope. Jacks are pretty tough little dogs hopefully someone who will appreciate his attributes and know how to deal with his issues will come along.

You really could find zillions of dogs at death's door given the pet over population problem so I agree with the advice to try to pick one that can fit in with your family and situation. This guy sounds like he really needs a cat free home. What would you do if all the behavior mod doesn't stop him from chasing your cats? We had a dog from Rosie and Sammy's rescue kill a cat at it's adopters home. That is a risk. Is it fair to put your cats at risk?
It's also tough when the dog also is not a pup anymore and has some serious issues beyond cat chasing. You've got more than one big red flag flying with this guy.
I empathise with your feelings 100%- when I see an aussie that looks less than likely to be adopted it's hard for me not to take it on. I never want to give up on a dog either so I have to remind myself that I'm not in a place where I can take on a special needs dog right now and walk away.

[12weimgirl]

I have no clue how to help him but I never had a problem with dogs and cats like that......