Functions of Ear Cropping

***Carrie*** · 01-16-2005, 08:18 AM

http://www.silverdobes.westhost.com/...n/PECEars.html

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/10655/57969

Dobiekiss · 01-16-2005, 11:50 AM

Thanks Carrie those are some great articles!

Scott & Brutus & Vin · 01-17-2005, 01:53 PM

great web sites carrie..however lets not kid ourselves when we KNOW the main reason we crop our dogs is for the LOOK. Im willing to bet your dobeys are not Professional protector dogs at federal banks or something of that nature..that article is a LITTLE misleading, yes in the past it was a considerable advantage for dogs of this nature to have their ears cropped for professional reasons, but i bet u dont run a bank. The lovers of cropped ears(MYSELF INCLUDED) should admit...it is for cosmetic looks mostly...and it is our right...Ive already beat this dead horse enough...That article is trying WAY to hard to make excuses for the procedure(docked/cropped) thats is why i had to chime in.....Like i said its for the look....but that article was a good HISTORY lesson..bye

***Carrie*** · 01-17-2005, 04:50 PM

A dog doesn't have to be a professional in order to benefit from the safety reasons for cropping and docking. Or, for that matter for we, who may appreciate their protective virtures one day. When Lyric hears something in the woods and I'm outside working in my big yard.....away from my house, he can better pin point the direction from where the sound is coming. It may very well be a bear because of where I live. I like the early warning and noticeable alerting that I can see with his head long before he sets up to barking.

Yes, I love the look of alertness and preparedness that a Doberman to the standard shows. But, at the same time, I won't dismiss the practical and safety reasons for cropping and docking either.

A dead horse, is right. LOL.

Scott & Brutus & Vin · 01-18-2005, 06:59 AM

One more thing...dogs with best hearing..bloodhound. afghan..labs and golden retrievers..pointers..all have one thing in common. NO CROPPED EARS.....yes one might be able to see erect ears move towards a sound..BUT IN NO WAY DOES IT HELP THEM HEAR BETTER..ANYONE INVOLVED IN HUNTING WILL TELL U THAT..most of the dogs that have great hearing actually have floppy natural ears.......of course your article will make u believe its "scientific facts" but that is baloney and EVERYONE knows which type of dogs actually have better hearing. Ex. Have you ever seen a dobey as a gun dog retreiving waterfowl..possible but unlikely..its not known for its hearing(that a cropped ear OBVIOUSLY gave it), no its known for its look of an aggressive intimidator. Geez a cocker spaniel has better hearing than a dobey. Ok im done ive made my point.............Remember i love cropped ears..just trying to get the facts out there......And yes i know u will show me some scientific fact that some doberman breeder presents stating a cropped ear helps it hear better.....BALONEY........OSCAR MEYER BALONEY....

Scott & Brutus & Vin · 01-18-2005, 07:03 AM

By the way carrie your dobey's are superkool and look beautiful....and i do honestly thank you for the advice on the tappings..keep it coming.

***Carrie*** · 01-18-2005, 07:36 AM

Actually, (LOL) Dobermans have been used for hunting, tracking, herding, rescuing, looking for buried people, seeing eye and other therapy and services.

I've had GSDs, Lab among others. My Chihuahuas hear absolutely better than any dog I've ever seen. They positively have BIONIC hearing and they have upright ears. Everyone thinks they yap so much. No wonder. They hear things from so far off, it's incredible! I'll think, "oh brother...here we go again. You guys, there's nothing there." Then.....a couple minutes later, viola! There is something there. LOL.

You're very welcome for the ear posting help. I was nervous at first too. But after having to do it for so long, about a year, I've gotten very use to it and so did Lyric.

Scott & Brutus & Vin · 01-18-2005, 08:48 AM

At least u agree (traditionally) dogs with excellent hearing in the field(hunting), therapy work, search and rescue have floppy ears...Of course i am talking about retrievers and labradors(i dont think St.Benards ears are cropped either LOL???). The GSD is the rare exception to the rule that i have seen in various search and rescue operations on tv....(alas their ears are naturally erect)...Here we go again. I think we can agree to disagree on the fact that a cropped ear makes the dog hear better. Have a good one!!!!!!!!!!!

***Carrie*** · 01-18-2005, 08:58 AM

I don't know about hearing better as far as volume, but the cone of pinpointing direction has been shown to be narrower with upright ears. I don't know about Labs. My Lab (before she was getting so deaf) would hear something off in the woods, but would look all over the place for the source. I see my Chihuahuas and Doberman as well as the GSDs I've had look more acurately at the direction of the source of the sound. I have always been interested in their senses and so observed this.

I had read about this and some things about their sight and smell which really interested me. Dogs, apparently hear much better than we....much, but we are far more accurate at pinpointing the source than they. They see much better at night and they detect motion sooner, but they do not see as clearly or as focused as we at a distance. They smell infinitely better than we. (smell, being a verb in this case) LOL.

Anyway, it's all very fascinating. Yes, I agree that hunting dogs need to hear well. As long as they don't have a yeast infection, they're good to go. LOL. (poor Bonnie has been plagued with them, treatable, but harrassed by them)

Scott & Brutus & Vin · 01-18-2005, 09:24 AM

Carrie i am a huge nature freak(to the point that my first major was Fisheries and Wildlife at Michigan State U)..Anyway. dogs are much better at pinpointing sounds than humans...have u ever watched a special on wolves on the national geographic channel? Anyway i have seen the special on wolves(ancestor of dog) in the winter...their hunting technique. It gets really interesting, anyway their quarry is VERY limited in winter so they must choose to go after smaller more readily available game. Wolves must go after rabbit, vole, mice..ect. It is very interesting to see a Wolf listen to the tiny vibrations in sound (mind u through feet of snow) and like a surgeon pinpoint where the game is..Then, using their front feet they bounce on the earth exactly where the vole(mouse) is causing it to flush itself out in the open. It is really neat. National Geographic and the Discovery channel get really in depth in this episode (and they use kool computer graphic to show sonic waves pinpointing game).. anyway hope that helps

Scott & Brutus & Vin · 01-18-2005, 09:26 AM

i definetely could not pinpoint where that darn mouse is under the snow....

***Carrie*** · 01-18-2005, 10:47 AM

Nor could I. LOL.

I notice with my Lab or any floppy earred dog, that when they want to hear something better, they lift their ears as best they can with those muscles. Why? Because they are trying to open them up, increasing the cone and allow more sound in.

http://www.nhm.org/exhibitions/dogs/...n/hearing.html

I am not sure about detection of direction of a sound. I had always thought or heard that dogs aren't as accurate, but I may have that wrong. I seem to have noticed though, that often I'll call my dogs from a distance or make a sound and they look all around as though they can't tell exactly where the sound is coming from. Then they see me and look so suprised, like, "oh, it's you If I hear something in the woods say...I think I'm quite on it as to where it's coming from. At least I think I am. LOL.

01-16-2005, 08:18 AM	#1 (permalink)
*Carrie* Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: north panhandle of Idaho Posts: 7,415 Rep Power: 285	Functions of Ear Cropping http://www.silverdobes.westhost.com/...n/PECEars.html http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/10655/57969

01-16-2005, 11:50 AM	#2 (permalink)
Dobiekiss Doberman Addict Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 32 Rep Power: 74	Thanks Carrie those are some great articles!

01-17-2005, 01:53 PM	#3 (permalink)
Scott & Brutus & Vin Giant Schnauzer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: kalamazoo Posts: 196 Rep Power: 74	great web sites carrie..however lets not kid ourselves when we KNOW the main reason we crop our dogs is for the LOOK. Im willing to bet your dobeys are not Professional protector dogs at federal banks or something of that nature..that article is a LITTLE misleading, yes in the past it was a considerable advantage for dogs of this nature to have their ears cropped for professional reasons, but i bet u dont run a bank. The lovers of cropped ears(MYSELF INCLUDED) should admit...it is for cosmetic looks mostly...and it is our right...Ive already beat this dead horse enough...That article is trying WAY to hard to make excuses for the procedure(docked/cropped) thats is why i had to chime in.....Like i said its for the look....but that article was a good HISTORY lesson..bye

01-17-2005, 04:50 PM	#4 (permalink)
*Carrie* Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: north panhandle of Idaho Posts: 7,415 Rep Power: 285	A dog doesn't have to be a professional in order to benefit from the safety reasons for cropping and docking. Or, for that matter for we, who may appreciate their protective virtures one day. When Lyric hears something in the woods and I'm outside working in my big yard.....away from my house, he can better pin point the direction from where the sound is coming. It may very well be a bear because of where I live. I like the early warning and noticeable alerting that I can see with his head long before he sets up to barking. Yes, I love the look of alertness and preparedness that a Doberman to the standard shows. But, at the same time, I won't dismiss the practical and safety reasons for cropping and docking either. A dead horse, is right. LOL.

01-18-2005, 06:59 AM	#5 (permalink)
Scott & Brutus & Vin Giant Schnauzer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: kalamazoo Posts: 196 Rep Power: 74	One more thing...dogs with best hearing..bloodhound. afghan..labs and golden retrievers..pointers..all have one thing in common. NO CROPPED EARS.....yes one might be able to see erect ears move towards a sound..BUT IN NO WAY DOES IT HELP THEM HEAR BETTER..ANYONE INVOLVED IN HUNTING WILL TELL U THAT..most of the dogs that have great hearing actually have floppy natural ears.......of course your article will make u believe its "scientific facts" but that is baloney and EVERYONE knows which type of dogs actually have better hearing. Ex. Have you ever seen a dobey as a gun dog retreiving waterfowl..possible but unlikely..its not known for its hearing(that a cropped ear OBVIOUSLY gave it), no its known for its look of an aggressive intimidator. Geez a cocker spaniel has better hearing than a dobey. Ok im done ive made my point.............Remember i love cropped ears..just trying to get the facts out there......And yes i know u will show me some scientific fact that some doberman breeder presents stating a cropped ear helps it hear better.....BALONEY........OSCAR MEYER BALONEY....

01-18-2005, 07:03 AM	#6 (permalink)
Scott & Brutus & Vin Giant Schnauzer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: kalamazoo Posts: 196 Rep Power: 74	By the way carrie your dobey's are superkool and look beautiful....and i do honestly thank you for the advice on the tappings..keep it coming.

01-18-2005, 07:36 AM	#7 (permalink)
*Carrie* Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: north panhandle of Idaho Posts: 7,415 Rep Power: 285	Actually, (LOL) Dobermans have been used for hunting, tracking, herding, rescuing, looking for buried people, seeing eye and other therapy and services. I've had GSDs, Lab among others. My Chihuahuas hear absolutely better than any dog I've ever seen. They positively have BIONIC hearing and they have upright ears. Everyone thinks they yap so much. No wonder. They hear things from so far off, it's incredible! I'll think, "oh brother...here we go again. You guys, there's nothing there." Then.....a couple minutes later, viola! There is something there. LOL. You're very welcome for the ear posting help. I was nervous at first too. But after having to do it for so long, about a year, I've gotten very use to it and so did Lyric.

01-18-2005, 08:48 AM	#8 (permalink)
Scott & Brutus & Vin Giant Schnauzer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: kalamazoo Posts: 196 Rep Power: 74	At least u agree (traditionally) dogs with excellent hearing in the field(hunting), therapy work, search and rescue have floppy ears...Of course i am talking about retrievers and labradors(i dont think St.Benards ears are cropped either LOL???). The GSD is the rare exception to the rule that i have seen in various search and rescue operations on tv....(alas their ears are naturally erect)...Here we go again. I think we can agree to disagree on the fact that a cropped ear makes the dog hear better. Have a good one!!!!!!!!!!!

01-18-2005, 08:58 AM	#9 (permalink)
*Carrie* Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: north panhandle of Idaho Posts: 7,415 Rep Power: 285	I don't know about hearing better as far as volume, but the cone of pinpointing direction has been shown to be narrower with upright ears. I don't know about Labs. My Lab (before she was getting so deaf) would hear something off in the woods, but would look all over the place for the source. I see my Chihuahuas and Doberman as well as the GSDs I've had look more acurately at the direction of the source of the sound. I have always been interested in their senses and so observed this. I had read about this and some things about their sight and smell which really interested me. Dogs, apparently hear much better than we....much, but we are far more accurate at pinpointing the source than they. They see much better at night and they detect motion sooner, but they do not see as clearly or as focused as we at a distance. They smell infinitely better than we. (smell, being a verb in this case) LOL. Anyway, it's all very fascinating. Yes, I agree that hunting dogs need to hear well. As long as they don't have a yeast infection, they're good to go. LOL. (poor Bonnie has been plagued with them, treatable, but harrassed by them)

01-18-2005, 09:24 AM	#10 (permalink)
Scott & Brutus & Vin Giant Schnauzer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: kalamazoo Posts: 196 Rep Power: 74	Carrie i am a huge nature freak(to the point that my first major was Fisheries and Wildlife at Michigan State U)..Anyway. dogs are much better at pinpointing sounds than humans...have u ever watched a special on wolves on the national geographic channel? Anyway i have seen the special on wolves(ancestor of dog) in the winter...their hunting technique. It gets really interesting, anyway their quarry is VERY limited in winter so they must choose to go after smaller more readily available game. Wolves must go after rabbit, vole, mice..ect. It is very interesting to see a Wolf listen to the tiny vibrations in sound (mind u through feet of snow) and like a surgeon pinpoint where the game is..Then, using their front feet they bounce on the earth exactly where the vole(mouse) is causing it to flush itself out in the open. It is really neat. National Geographic and the Discovery channel get really in depth in this episode (and they use kool computer graphic to show sonic waves pinpointing game).. anyway hope that helps

01-18-2005, 09:26 AM	#11 (permalink)
Scott & Brutus & Vin Giant Schnauzer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: kalamazoo Posts: 196 Rep Power: 74	i definetely could not pinpoint where that darn mouse is under the snow....

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01-18-2005, 10:47 AM	#12 (permalink)
*Carrie* Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: north panhandle of Idaho Posts: 7,415 Rep Power: 285	Nor could I. LOL. I notice with my Lab or any floppy earred dog, that when they want to hear something better, they lift their ears as best they can with those muscles. Why? Because they are trying to open them up, increasing the cone and allow more sound in. http://www.nhm.org/exhibitions/dogs/...n/hearing.html I am not sure about detection of direction of a sound. I had always thought or heard that dogs aren't as accurate, but I may have that wrong. I seem to have noticed though, that often I'll call my dogs from a distance or make a sound and they look all around as though they can't tell exactly where the sound is coming from. Then they see me and look so suprised, like, "oh, it's you If I hear something in the woods say...I think I'm quite on it as to where it's coming from. At least I think I am. LOL.